General Discussion

General DiscussionHow to win a game despite the feeders on your team?

How to win a game despite the feeders on your team? in General Discussion
Everyone loves Chibi

    "RAT DOTO" - it's a way (which i dont like too much btw), but its hard to do if you have no towers anymore in 20 mins. Before you get farmed with NP, Brood, Pugna, Tinker od DP, you're already pretty much done. It has to be done sometimes in order to win, i agree with that.

    @6_din_49 - when the guy uploades topic or improve in rating by much, post it here pls to inform us - i'm very curious how far he can get.

    Ten komentarz był edytowany
    sleave

      he is going up cause he doesnt deserve that MMR, he is from a highest bracket
      for that, obviously he won't have 50% chances of winning. but as soon as he gets into his actual MMR, he will

      King of Low Prio

        statistically he will start losing for example 5% --> 10% ---> 20% ----50% on the way to his previous MM. You also need to take into account that he needs to be playing both the 'smurf' account and his main account to get a accurate score (he might be currently be undervalued or overvalued)

        Everyone loves Chibi

          Of course, i know how this works in theory. I was just interested at which rating is he now. I saw last time he was around 3.5k, wondered if he improved from then. But yeah, playing 2 account simultaneously is very time consuming, it will take some time.

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          Dire Wolf

            If the other team has more carries there's usually not much you can do. If you're team has more carries or stronger late ones, just try not to lose too many towers and keep farming. You'd be amazed what you can come back from. Most teams don't push an advantage, even if they have been fed. They'll often go back to laning and farming as usual despite your team having a huge late game advantage.

            Also a lot of times if a lane is feeding then they are facing strong disabler/nuker heroes and those kind of heroes almost always drop off end game or are countered by a bkb.

            Other times it's just not possible. My last match I was razor, safe lane, our long lane fed luna like crazy. We started to come back, actually raxxed their mid with our teir 2s up, but they had TA and luna, we had me as razor and slardar as our carries so end game we couldn't compete and game went over 60 mins. I certainly could've played better but I still don't think it matters, luna in a 60 min game is going to be 6 slotted no matter what and I couldn't get ahead of her enough mid game cus of the feed.

            Ten komentarz był edytowany
            6_din_49

              @There is no try
              You played 4v5...

              Everyone loves Chibi

                A perfect example of extraordinary shitty team without any skill, no help on my lane so i can farm better (lion just doing completely nothing, taking my last hits, not helping me farm, etc), massive feeders on bot vs ursa (bad positioning sven, who doesnt even consider taking his stun for escape and initiation), team without any clue how to win game, since barely anyone pushed or ganked, etc.

                Even if i was 6000mmr here, i probably couldnt have won this game. What do you think? What i could've done better? The hero pick was ok in my opinion.

                http://dotabuff.com/matches/469730527

                Ten komentarz był edytowany
                King of Low Prio

                  ^ you legit think riki is a solid pick when you have a sven and mirana?

                  Everyone loves Chibi

                    Yes i think that. For this particular game it was great in my opinion, especially cause Mirana and Sven did nothing. Did you even watch the replay? I guess not.

                    King of Low Prio

                      the picks happen before the start of the game. I am not watching any more replays because shit players like yourself could spin around in a circle around the fountain and still be so delusion to believe that you are doing everything.

                      waku waku

                        snowball before your team causes an enemy hero to snowball

                        Quick maffs

                          "Although I just played (and won) as a support despite only 1 person on my team actually being a reliable person to gank with and even he was pretty questionable. There should be a vod of it.

                          The commentary about the riki can sound a bit ragey but it brings up an important point: sometimes, someone on your team is unreliable (or downright clueless) and thus you have to play the game as if it's a 4v5."

                          You can easily check that the guy is not playing support and he wont be playing support on the future.

                          I mean the 5,6 k mmr guy who is playing with the account of a 3k player.

                          The funny thing is that the guy agree with the forced 50 % winrate http://www.playdota.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8978615&postcount=345

                          Everyone loves Chibi

                            " I am not watching any more replays because shit players like yourself could spin around in a circle around the fountain and still be so delusion to believe that you are doing everything. "

                            First - you dont have a clue how i play, you got to have a lot of friends with that attitude. Go find a life and gtfo of my topics.

                            @Toxin - yeah, good advice. But its hard to do that, when a Sven feeds Ursa on hardlane like 0-4 or 0-5 in few minutes and i'm playing solo riki vs dual lane harashers.

                            @Dorkly - he's playing mainly carries, cause its probably the only way to carry a shitty team. "The funny thing is that the guy agree with the forced 50 % winrate" - i agree with it too. When you win a lot, mmr goes up quickly and you come to a point, when you lose (maybe a bunch of games too). It compensate, especially if you're not playing stacked.

                            Ten komentarz był edytowany
                            King of Low Prio

                              there is no forced 50% winrate just like there is no forced 50% chance of a coin landing on heads or tails

                              Everyone loves Chibi

                                @Sampson - did you not read what i just said or you cant read and i have to picture it to you? GTFO of my topic or you'll get a report on this forum for harassment.

                                Quick maffs

                                  Anyway i am probably going to talk about this kind of things in playdota, people there seems to be way more intelligent than people here.

                                  King of Low Prio

                                    The dotabuff admins have told me I have been reported by countless people mad because I told them the truth. I have some of the admins on my friends list too lol so have fun with that

                                    Quick maffs

                                      ^So because of that you can shit talk right ? being right does not gives you any right to shit talk OR flame like you do.

                                      "If a 8 year old calls me a poopy head I do not get into a shouting match with the 8 year old and cause a scene."

                                      Yeah i see you dont .......

                                      Ten komentarz był edytowany
                                      Everyone loves Chibi

                                        @Sampson - I dont care who you have in friendlist. If you trashtalk and insult me (constructive criticism is something else), that's a verbal abuse and it should be reported in any situation, "friends" aside. If admins dont do anything about that, thats abuse of the position they have and they should be banned too.

                                        @Dorkly - EXACTLY my point.

                                        Ten komentarz był edytowany
                                        King of Low Prio

                                          there is a big difference between talking shit and telling people the harsh reality they do not what to hear. Nobody who got overvalued with MM and then started seeing huge loss streaks will accept 'you are right I am way too high for my skill lv when I reach the level I should be my matches will balance out' the usual result is 'FUKIN RUSSIANS MAKING ME LOSE EVERY GAME, FUKING RUSSIAN SAID '頭が悪い' TO ME, WTF I DONT UNDERSTAND THAT RUSSIAN GIBBERISH'

                                          King of Low Prio

                                            I am not saying they would not ban me because I know some of them I said they have told me people have reported me for insane reason like legit someone reported me saying 'Sampson threatened to kill me' in hopes that they would not double check. Feel free to report me I will go through the exact same channels as everyone else I am not special.

                                            [Lk].Zano

                                              There's a difference between telling someone the "harsh reality" and being a dick though, not everyone reacts the same to what you tell them, some will be hurt, some will never register your words, some will simply not care.

                                              The Internet is a fascinating place.

                                              King of Low Prio

                                                I am allowed to be a dick

                                                Everyone loves Chibi

                                                  Not in this topic. Either you be constructive (you can be harsh, but not a dick and insulting) or leave this topic. There is a constructive debate here and not a kindergarten full or retarded kids.

                                                  waku waku

                                                    I watched your game since i had nothing to do, and outside of mirana not having starfall at level 4, sven not having storm bolt on level 6, and earthshaker not having fissure on level 6, your team was not actually that bad. i can't see any last hits that lion stole from you either, though it sucked that he did not do a good job of harassing the enemy. maybe if went more aggressive on witch doctor so lion could follow you you could have won the lane as he is squishy enough to be stunlocked and killed while beastmaster hardly can do anything
                                                    You could have also won the lane if you picked a ranged hero like viper, he would not be so good without mobility and disables aganist that team but at this level of play it could be possible to work it out anyway.

                                                    Everyone loves Chibi

                                                      Ty toxin. Well, i picked Riki, cause he's one of the few heroes he can get solo kiills later on and is invis so it's way easier to farm and push, even if my team feeds. Not having Stun, fissure OR ANY NORMAL ITEMS you would expect from our heroes, etc was a big deal in surviving on the lanes and in terms of gank power - we had none this way. If i harassed them more (i was alone on lane most of the time) i would probably have died. WD stun + curse deals lots of dmg to a squishi hero as Riki is, so i had to play safer and do most of the situation i had. They had lots of stun n disables + Rosh advantage. We didnt have Blink on Earth, no MOM or BKB on Sven, absolutely nothing on Mirana, well... you get the picture.

                                                      I wonder tho, what this guy with 5.6k mmr who went to play on 2.9k mmr profile would have done in my position :)

                                                      [Lk].Zano

                                                        ^ Probably pick a mid hero. If you are alone, it's...theoretically better to go a mid snowballing hero, assuming you are the most skilled player in your team.

                                                        King of Low Prio

                                                          I went thru the thread to see where exactly I was shittalking and trolling people and I got nothing. I even was nice enough to do a game analysis. The fact that you thank everyone in the thread that agrees with you then threaten to report people who do not share your opinion shows you only made this thread for self gratification

                                                          PS: plz report me every report that gets rejected gives me a great feeling

                                                          TunnelRAT - (inzu)

                                                            You can't get anywhere, problems come from lineups.

                                                            Everyone loves Chibi

                                                              This is my last post to @Sampson. After that if you dont get out of this topic, you're reported.

                                                              "I am not watching any more replays because shit players like yourself could spin around in a circle around the fountain and still be so delusion to believe that you are doing everything. "

                                                              "You can't get anywhere, problems come from lineups." - yeah, thats the case lots of times, but i think we had an ok lineup this time. It was the players, who didnt do their job with the heroes they had.

                                                              Ten komentarz był edytowany
                                                              King of Low Prio

                                                                @Sugar Puppy

                                                                that was well after you threatened to report me for insulting you so plz try again

                                                                PS you picked riki when you alrdy had 2 carries yet you complain about your team? you alrdy set yourself at a disadvantage before anyone had a chance to do anything

                                                                6_din_49

                                                                  @Sampson
                                                                  http://dotabuff.com/matches/469730527/skills
                                                                  He was teamed with an Earthshaker that leveled fissure at 7 and a Sven that at level 5 had points only in cleave and stats. Picks were the last of their problems in that game.

                                                                  Ten komentarz był edytowany
                                                                  Ples Mercy
                                                                    King of Low Prio

                                                                      @6_din_49

                                                                      the ES was messing around with a carry shaker build

                                                                      the sven seemed to have no intention of fighting early game

                                                                      trying out new things is how you improve and some people do not take their MM as serious as others

                                                                      King of Low Prio

                                                                        the sven is the only one who has profile off private and if you look through he matches it seems that he knows the standard builds/items so it is not like he is some complete random who just flips a coin to choose where to put points. Now if he is actually good I highly doubt it but at that MM it is not like you can expect pro gameplay

                                                                        Everyone loves Chibi

                                                                          "that was well after you threatened to report me for insulting you so plz try again" - LOL, and you are telling others the harsh truth, when you cant even see it yourself? :D I already waisted enough of my time for a dick like yourself, so i wont even keep on explaning what is obvious. Everyone can see now, that you dont even know what you said and when.

                                                                          Ten komentarz był edytowany
                                                                          Everyone loves Chibi

                                                                            @6_din_49 - ty for acknowledging that. Everyone who claims oposite is either thinking in terms of next level dota play (which is highly unlikely here, especially for offlane Sven and Earthshaker who need at least survivability + they're not high skill players) or either is lying to himself.

                                                                            Dire Wolf

                                                                              @6_din_49
                                                                              What do you mean 4v5? Did I miss a big team fight in the replay or something? I acknowledge I make lots of mistakes and am not skilled enough to carry feeders but I don't get what your comment was pointing out.

                                                                              King of Low Prio

                                                                                @Sugar Puppy

                                                                                it has nothing to do with 'next level dota' it has to do with trying out new things. Just because X player does Y does not mean that every single game you must do X. As i stated before (which you seemed to just ignore) was the fact that he does know the common builds/items, as shown by he prior games and he was merely trying out something new.

                                                                                Everyone loves Chibi

                                                                                  First ranked game. Started ok, but then it just turned to be totally onesided feed party with our Huskar and Tusk in main roles. Overall one of my worst Mirana games (missed quite few arrows, some unfortunate), but it was mostly decided by 2 players who didnt have a clue when to initiate or how to farm. Mmr? They said they were 3.5-3.6k. I'm probably a pope if thats true.

                                                                                  http://dotabuff.com/matches/470394479

                                                                                  Second one. Suicider IO Russian dick. 1-21, portet me few times intentionally into sure death. He got reportet by whole team (i lost my nerves at some point), but he totally destroyed our game, although i managed to carry it mostly myself and were doing fine till one point he suicided me again and we lost our base. We just couldnt push, cause people just kept diing to Broodmother pushing the damn lanes. Such a broken hero... I killed her few times 1 vs 1, but just couldnt have done more. Totally noob team except Enigma.

                                                                                  http://dotabuff.com/matches/470424816

                                                                                  Do i really deserve to lose my MMR rating over such unbalanced games?! Is this balanced according to Valve's matchmaking? For gods sake... Btw - Jakiro and TA said they were 3.7-3.8k in mmr. My ass.

                                                                                  Ten komentarz był edytowany
                                                                                  King of Low Prio

                                                                                    the Jakiro had mana boots, sheep stick, mek, wards and sentries yet you are talking shit about him? 24 assists???? You seem like a kill chaser who did not take advantage of kills during the game. By the looks of it you seem like a insane rager and nobody wants to help you win and actually go out of their way to give you a loss.

                                                                                    Look at the other team making necro books, they understand that kills do not matter and focus on killing buildings. Poor decision making is what loses you games

                                                                                    If MM thinks you are the best player on the team and you play like a moron your 50% chance of winning drops to 10%

                                                                                    Everyone loves Chibi

                                                                                      It's a shame admins didnt ban you out of this topic yet. Soon i hope :) I feel sorry for your parents, really.

                                                                                      King of Low Prio

                                                                                        and they wont, you refuse accept that you are making alot of huge mistakes that lead to your team not winning. Chasing heroes around the map and getting kills is great and all IF you use those kills to take towers (which you never did). You bitch and moan about a support who buys alot for the team(prob started raging which leads to more mutes) and think you are not doing anything wrong.

                                                                                        Everyone loves Chibi

                                                                                          "Poor decision making is what loses you games " - no. Intentional suicide feeders and people who lack positioning and timing for initiation do. But you're obviously too blind to see that. But i agree with your way of thinking - it's the best to leave responsibility to someone else, right? Then you can feed, position bad in fights, pick wrong items, be totally passive and blame it on the carry.

                                                                                          About jakiro - he did buy some wards, mek and sheep, but lots of times (especially when we needed really good freezes n ult) he even couldnt use it cause he positioned bad and died too soon to actually do something with it. 1.2k heal in 50min game - lots of good mek uses right? We lost cause people dont understand that if we win a teamfight with 5 oponents dead, its time to PUSH ASAP, not to just hang around.

                                                                                          King of Low Prio

                                                                                            893 tower dmg, you talk about your team but you are not doing anything better

                                                                                            jess the goat

                                                                                              @sugar puppy
                                                                                              just asking, why are you posting on a smurf?

                                                                                              Everyone loves Chibi

                                                                                                22.3 Hero dmg. Where is our second carry TA? 8-9-6, 11.5k hero dmg, 133lh. Is this a contribution of a good carry player? 1-21 Io suiciding me alone into 5 at least couple of times? I always pinged and told the team to go after towers, but when we got to towers, brood splitpushed on other lane and only i could stop her. If i defended and my team went to push, they got raped. WHATS NOT CLEAR HERE? I dont even know why i'm talking to you, you always seem to find explanation why someone is bad. I'll gladly do the same to you if i see your post somewhere.

                                                                                                Everyone loves Chibi

                                                                                                  @A Hobbit - this is probably going to be my main profile, so where it seems to be a problem? :)

                                                                                                  jess the goat

                                                                                                    oh its not a problem, was just asking, thanks for answering.

                                                                                                    Everyone loves Chibi

                                                                                                      Oh, its ok man. I'm used people attacking players like me, who just want a fresh start and are playing on a new profile. So, i took it a bit offensive, sry about that :)