A more capable player that only plays support can surely end up with a K:D <1 at a win rate of 50%. Now, I don't know many players that only plays support like Relentless.
It's obvious to me that you're not very familiar with the support role. The support player can easily be the MVP of a match even with a K:D <1. His deaths might've been for objectives or to save a more important ally. Just seeing that the professionals are satisfied with a K:D MUCH lower than 1 on their supports should be evidence enough of that.
Also, frostychee is retarded. There are many supports where you are going to have an abysmal K:D ratio. For example, omni and tree. GL getting kills w/o ksing for them.
lmao, you guys are arguing a completely different point. I understand as a support, you're going to end up with less kills than deaths. I'm saying as a player in general regardless of role.
I'm done with this thread if you guys are going to argue something I'm not even talking about.
Relentless plays support though? So it is highly relevant. Why would you even bring up Relentless' K:D if you aren't even comparing him to other support players?
Why the hate? Relentless is an intelligent guy and provides interesting insight about lots of stuff... I don't care about his MMR, I like his posts and I don't know why would you act like this about him
Don't get me wrong, I love reading his posts too for entertainment value (keyword: Entertainment), but basically reality smacked him in the face and put him in his place, and that's why it's amusing to me after all the smack he talked.
Rugboi - You completely missed my point as well. My point is, look at the last 20 matches of someone who's say, 4.5-5k MMR. You're not going to find someone has only 2 or 3 games where they have more kills than deaths out of those 20 games. Because of this it is not surprising to me if he is 3k MMR (I don't even know if that's true or not). I'm sitting at 4.2k MMR, so we play in a very similar bracket.
Don John's last post is pretty much what I was trying to say. I love reading this guy's insight and analysis of dota subjects, not hating on him at all.
Sure you can frostychee. I have K:D <1 in 15/20 of my latest games and 75% of those 20 games are victories. It's not difficult to see that such a scenario could be possible if I had 50% win instead.
http://dotabuff.com/players/77138773/matches
Psychology and communication are both fascinating and confusing subjects for me. I've found nothing in this world that makes so little sense to me as how people respond to everything they encounter.
One very common human trait seems to be the projection of ones one emotions and motivation onto others. I can only imagine that those who from time to time conclude that I am trying to make people think I am some dota superstar must be doing some kind of projection of their own desires. Similarly, some people also imagine that having failed to attain their dream I am crushed by that failure as they would be if it were them... Several in this thread even assumed I had quit dota and killed myself because I had not posted for a couple weeks. I guess that reflects how all consuming dota must be to their own identities.
I wonder if the egocentrism and consequent projection of oneself onto everyone else typically displayed by dota 2 players is merely a product of the immaturity and inexperience of the gaming population or if people my age would be similar. Have adults learned that people are as diverse as dota 2 heroes or do they also attribute all others motivations to their own motives as well? I wonder how little (or how much?) real understanding is possible between people. A word means a different thing to each one based on their experiences with that word.
If you haven't figure it out yet, or did not notice the half a dozen earlier times this year I have explained my own motivations I'll treat you to them again. I play dota primarily because I love to watch it and can get a better understanding and appreciation for the game by playing it. I watch a lot more dota than I play. It is a good way to waste time and have fun while wasting time since I don't presently feel like accomplishing much of anything real. Dota is complex enough to hold my interest and does not require establishing any serious and potentially painful and problematic human consequences. It is also very inexpensive and I have almost no resources to expend on entertainment. I write because I love to write. I argue because I love to argue.
I am, in fact better than maybe 90 to 95% of all dota players... but this is not particularly impressive or special nor is it intended to be. It's just a fact that bears some relevance for understanding my experience and perspective on the game. My MMR is currently solo 3.2k and party 3.7k, but it has been several hundred points higher and lower than those marks before and no doubt will be again at some point. It is not possible to capture a players performance in single number in game with over 100 widely differing heroes and many modes of play. I have played nearly 7 thousand games of dota 1 and dota 2 over the last 4 years it is a fascinating strategy game and has managed to hold my attention much longer than many other diversions since it continues to change. There is always a new puzzle to consider.
As Jussi understands well (since he is a pro level support player) a support player can be absolutely critical to a teams success while having a low KDA, almost no cs, the lowest xp in the game... but many people who play a lot of pub carry and little else emphatically reject this truth because it does not match their personal experience.
Some people have little time for dota and play it primarily casually to enjoy a game with irl friends. But for others it is an important pat of their daily routine and even their self-worth. These two groups seem completely unable to understand each other.
Those with extremely high MMR are so unaware of those with average and low MMR that their very existence is routinely denied! All these and more fascinating and baffling quirks of human behavior and thought are regularly displayed on this forum and it is my pleasure to see them play out.
I see another opportunity here to make a point many readers may enjoy. On this forum, perhaps more than others since it is not moderated, you can learn a great deal about the consequences of what you say. One thing you must realize if you think that you might one day have cause to say something of substance in public is that it will be greeted by some with praise, by many with silent agreement or silent disagreement, by some with anger, by some with laughter, by some with indifference, by some with outrage, and by some with mockery. This will be true no matter what you say or how well you convey the message and no matter on what topic you are speaking.
So if you want to judge the impact or acceptance of your message, or wish to re-evaluate what you said based on feedback, you must learn to pay attention to the perspective from which feedback is delivered. There is no such thing as objectivity. Each source, even inanimate instruments, has its own bias.
I think you have to take into account that most of the people that post on this forum are very immature. Personally I enjoy half of the things here because they are pretty interesting, but when people throw around the words such as autistic and faggot like it's nothing then there is something wrong with them. I know this is the internet, but people will grow up eventually. This stuff that you're talking about is likely to go over their head or simply just don't care about that aspect.
A more capable player that only plays support can surely end up with a K:D <1 at a win rate of 50%. Now, I don't know many players that only plays support like Relentless.
It's obvious to me that you're not very familiar with the support role. The support player can easily be the MVP of a match even with a K:D <1. His deaths might've been for objectives or to save a more important ally. Just seeing that the professionals are satisfied with a K:D MUCH lower than 1 on their supports should be evidence enough of that.
Well everyone knew Relentless just liked to talk big without being anywhere close to good. Just look at his name.
Also, frostychee is retarded. There are many supports where you are going to have an abysmal K:D ratio. For example, omni and tree. GL getting kills w/o ksing for them.
lmao, you guys are arguing a completely different point. I understand as a support, you're going to end up with less kills than deaths. I'm saying as a player in general regardless of role.
I'm done with this thread if you guys are going to argue something I'm not even talking about.
Relentless plays support though? So it is highly relevant. Why would you even bring up Relentless' K:D if you aren't even comparing him to other support players?
Guys, nobody cares about his plays! We like reading his posts!
volvo must have hired him and made the new rmm system lol
frostychee, you might want to check my profile. Currently sitting at 4518 mmr solo queue, almost exclusively been playing carry Jugger. KDA: 2.29.
The non-jugger games are pretty much all tmm games. There I'm sitting at about 3700 mmr.
LOL sorry I know this is somewhat of an old topic but I just came across it and spat out water that I was drinking.
This guy talks so much as if he's really good and he even said I'll realize how bad I am when I die and then boom he finds out he's 3k mmr himself.
As the other user said, what's more surprising is the fact that he's even above 2000 mmr LOL
Why the hate? Relentless is an intelligent guy and provides interesting insight about lots of stuff... I don't care about his MMR, I like his posts and I don't know why would you act like this about him
Don't get me wrong, I love reading his posts too for entertainment value (keyword: Entertainment), but basically reality smacked him in the face and put him in his place, and that's why it's amusing to me after all the smack he talked.
Rugboi - You completely missed my point as well. My point is, look at the last 20 matches of someone who's say, 4.5-5k MMR. You're not going to find someone has only 2 or 3 games where they have more kills than deaths out of those 20 games. Because of this it is not surprising to me if he is 3k MMR (I don't even know if that's true or not). I'm sitting at 4.2k MMR, so we play in a very similar bracket.
Don John's last post is pretty much what I was trying to say. I love reading this guy's insight and analysis of dota subjects, not hating on him at all.
Sure you can frostychee. I have K:D <1 in 15/20 of my latest games and 75% of those 20 games are victories. It's not difficult to see that such a scenario could be possible if I had 50% win instead.
http://dotabuff.com/players/77138773/matches
Yeah, 5 is bigger than a constant 2 or 3. You're at 5, 6, 9, 5, etc
lmao don same reaction as me and i usually dont find common ground with invoker pickers, cheers
Psychology and communication are both fascinating and confusing subjects for me. I've found nothing in this world that makes so little sense to me as how people respond to everything they encounter.
One very common human trait seems to be the projection of ones one emotions and motivation onto others. I can only imagine that those who from time to time conclude that I am trying to make people think I am some dota superstar must be doing some kind of projection of their own desires. Similarly, some people also imagine that having failed to attain their dream I am crushed by that failure as they would be if it were them... Several in this thread even assumed I had quit dota and killed myself because I had not posted for a couple weeks. I guess that reflects how all consuming dota must be to their own identities.
I wonder if the egocentrism and consequent projection of oneself onto everyone else typically displayed by dota 2 players is merely a product of the immaturity and inexperience of the gaming population or if people my age would be similar. Have adults learned that people are as diverse as dota 2 heroes or do they also attribute all others motivations to their own motives as well? I wonder how little (or how much?) real understanding is possible between people. A word means a different thing to each one based on their experiences with that word.
If you haven't figure it out yet, or did not notice the half a dozen earlier times this year I have explained my own motivations I'll treat you to them again. I play dota primarily because I love to watch it and can get a better understanding and appreciation for the game by playing it. I watch a lot more dota than I play. It is a good way to waste time and have fun while wasting time since I don't presently feel like accomplishing much of anything real. Dota is complex enough to hold my interest and does not require establishing any serious and potentially painful and problematic human consequences. It is also very inexpensive and I have almost no resources to expend on entertainment. I write because I love to write. I argue because I love to argue.
I am, in fact better than maybe 90 to 95% of all dota players... but this is not particularly impressive or special nor is it intended to be. It's just a fact that bears some relevance for understanding my experience and perspective on the game. My MMR is currently solo 3.2k and party 3.7k, but it has been several hundred points higher and lower than those marks before and no doubt will be again at some point. It is not possible to capture a players performance in single number in game with over 100 widely differing heroes and many modes of play. I have played nearly 7 thousand games of dota 1 and dota 2 over the last 4 years it is a fascinating strategy game and has managed to hold my attention much longer than many other diversions since it continues to change. There is always a new puzzle to consider.
As Jussi understands well (since he is a pro level support player) a support player can be absolutely critical to a teams success while having a low KDA, almost no cs, the lowest xp in the game... but many people who play a lot of pub carry and little else emphatically reject this truth because it does not match their personal experience.
Some people have little time for dota and play it primarily casually to enjoy a game with irl friends. But for others it is an important pat of their daily routine and even their self-worth. These two groups seem completely unable to understand each other.
Those with extremely high MMR are so unaware of those with average and low MMR that their very existence is routinely denied! All these and more fascinating and baffling quirks of human behavior and thought are regularly displayed on this forum and it is my pleasure to see them play out.
you got issues
[IMG]http://puu.sh/6uBGv.jpg[/IMG]
And long and insightive relentless posts strike again. We love you relentless. Join me in 3k MMR :)
^ he will
HAHAHAHAHAHA
I see another opportunity here to make a point many readers may enjoy. On this forum, perhaps more than others since it is not moderated, you can learn a great deal about the consequences of what you say. One thing you must realize if you think that you might one day have cause to say something of substance in public is that it will be greeted by some with praise, by many with silent agreement or silent disagreement, by some with anger, by some with laughter, by some with indifference, by some with outrage, and by some with mockery. This will be true no matter what you say or how well you convey the message and no matter on what topic you are speaking.
So if you want to judge the impact or acceptance of your message, or wish to re-evaluate what you said based on feedback, you must learn to pay attention to the perspective from which feedback is delivered. There is no such thing as objectivity. Each source, even inanimate instruments, has its own bias.
Dont bully him he's a bad player that may have good knowledge but lack of execution.
I think you have to take into account that most of the people that post on this forum are very immature. Personally I enjoy half of the things here because they are pretty interesting, but when people throw around the words such as autistic and faggot like it's nothing then there is something wrong with them. I know this is the internet, but people will grow up eventually. This stuff that you're talking about is likely to go over their head or simply just don't care about that aspect.
I agree. Why do people bully him... He spends a lot of time and effort writing good posts and all he gets is crap for it.
Online bullying not just in game but on a forum. Pure jealousy.
I actually really enjoy Relentless posts. He's reasonings almost always have good basis. I must say I learn something new from his posts ^^