I also have quite the same question
DO I BUY MIDAS ON MORPH?
:D
^only if the game is completely fucked up
midas on spectre is very situational, midas on am is a nope cz it has negative effect on ur gpm and xpm on this hero
midas has a negative effect on the gpm of almost all carry. The few hero on which it doesn't, either farm super fast the wood with nothing (like bs) or farm super slowly (like ck)
@matrice
afair slark is one of ur signatures, could u briefly explain the midas on him? ir i was going for this item nearly always a bit more than a year ago, now it feels to be useless crap.
actually echo first item make you farm way more than midas on slark
^ How? Would you mind explaining the idea behind that? This is the first time I'm disagreeing with high mmr players
I think these days midas is only bought on slark when it's a recovery midas, or when he wants to catch up with flash farmer like AM.
In my opinion, echo sabre first item is so bad on slark since it gives nothing in term of impact to the game. SB slark is to change him to a roamer who can run around the map farming anywhere he wants, Dagger is similar but it makes him become an initiator who can jump to the back line in fights, I don't think Slark wants to farm for 20+ mins to come online
Oh so you're saying that Slark should get echo instead of midas because it gives him the same, if not better, ability to recover his farm, not to casually get echo sabre first item for farming?
If that's the case then it makes sense, sorry for my misunderstanding.
But still, talking about midas vs echo for recovering
Wouldn't midas benefit him in a long run? And midas is a little bit cheaper as well. Plus slark is already good at clearing creeps, isn't talon alone enough? Because he really needs to get core item like SB asap to come online and help the team
Midas on carry is appropriate ONLY if there are heros on your team that can flash farm, or simply when you expect less space for yourself in mid game... that is the answer here, easy
^ easy, but no lol
I prefer waiting for matrice or Severe to answer, Thanks for your tip tho :)
slark int gain was nerfed so bad that you can't farm nearly as fast (or, sustain the fast farming) without echo (or any other mana/manaregen item but echo is the best).
1. Under 10 minutes is fine for either midlane or carry if you're not being given free farm. Otherwise with good farm you're aiming <8 mins/
2. You get midas as recovery if you're underlevelled. Contrary to how some people play, you're supposed to be PROACTIVE if you get a midas because it allows you a stream of gold even while you're fighting. If you're free farming then farm accelerators (maelstrom/bfury/manaregen) items get you more gold.
3. Yes its dumb on antimage and spectre
4. It's almost never recommended to rush midas first. the potential deaths/missed kills that could have occured if you had a boots or a stick or some regen far outweigh a tiny increase in your total gpm
idk if advice from another baseline 5k is what you want but i believe my reasoning is sound
@nami thanks a lot. Just recently noticed a couple of pro games where notail (slark) and sccc (puck) got midas in like 14-15 minutes. Why is that so? And doesn't getting midas make you vulnerable until you get your next big item? Do i still join fights regardless?
Thanks you guys for your input. I appreciate that.
they get midas after some core item (ive seen even midas after shadow blade on slark in professional dota) thats why the midas comes late.
If there is no item 1 item that gives you impact, then that's when it's okay to get a core hand of Midas.
However it is very situational.
Words of BSJ
Well tbh it's hard to pinpoint exact reasons why each pro goes for midas instead but I believe they make the choice base on how they predict the future flow of the game. I'm sure some players get it for it's snowballing potential (higher levels) and others as means of catching up.
Look at MidOne's 10k ursa game. He plays ursa mid and gets a 12 min midas before his blink, a decision that if made by a random lower mmr player would probably get criticized. Why? In his case I believe he didn't get it as catchup as he was performing well but rather as snowballing measure. I'm confident that if he went blink earlier he might have gotten two or three more kills but he must have decided that the added levels and steady income of gold in the long run outweighed those kills.
I think at this point it's more a matter of preference. I don't think either decision would be wrong and it comes down to your own playstyle.
I don't know about the games you're referring in particular so I can't support it with evidence like MidOne's game but I'm sure if you watched the replays and give it some thought, you'd be able to pinpoint the rational behind their choices.
echo sabre is better than midas for multiple reasons.
- manaregen for constant dark pact farming
- damage from doublehit/dmg/attackspeed
- survivability due to HP and armor
- gives you kill potential
Midas gives you only attackspeed. Sure you will gain gold every 180seconds, but you will farm much slower, are easier to gank, will have potential mana issues and cannot fight. The bottom line is, you will farm slower and be more useless on midas vs echo sabre.
To the thread:
1. What is the timing for getting a midas on core? (I've been told that I only should get it if I could do so under 10 minutes, but that was ages ago)
2. When and why do you get a midas? (if it's after 10 minutes)
3. Is it right if i tell my teammates not to get midas on carries like spectre and anti mage? (They don't have a decent laning phase and often end up 0-8 in the 1st 10 minutes)
4. Do u get midas 1st or stuff like aquila or treads 1st and proceed into midas?
1.) Don't get midas on core unless we talk about a core that is downright terrible at farming or benefit greatly on exp. (CK, syllabear, invoker etc.)
2.) I am personally not a fan of the "recovery" midas because I think relying on your team is the most terrible thing you can do in a pub game. Getting core items and trying to make a decent play instead of afk farming with midas has a higher chance of winning the game in the long run. At least in my oppinion.
3.) Don't bother, let them play their game and deal with it. People who buy midas on spec or AM for instance, are usually thick headed idiots who don't care what you think. You will only tilt them and make them play way worse.
4.) Don't rush naked midas or radiance, unless you KNOW that you will NEVER get ganked in the forst 10/15 minutes and have freefarm. (For example: You see enemy has dual mid / useless afk jungle like luna or something).
Got it. Thank you so much guys.
@danishblunt i cant seem to make sense of the recovery midas as well. I feel like it makes you weaker.
Recovery midas seems alright if you know the game will go late (they have no HG sieging potential/actual pusher)
Also, one should remember that midas ISN'T +200 gold every 100 sec (on a carry that can farm!) you have to substract the gold from the creep. (xp wise, ranged creep are the best -some lvl6 neutral give slightly more, but you lose 50 more gold on them than on ranged creep-) If you use midas only on the most effective target,then it's only a ~+150 gold. You get a mere +90 gpm out of it.
Having extra mana/dps from an other item will help you clean that one single additional camp which will give you that amount of gold (if not more) aswell as more xp. + potential lane pressure.
Midas is strong for two things -> reliable gold, and extra gold/xp on the map (but extra gold/xp on the map ain't worth at all if you cann't even get what's available in first place
Why is Bloodseeker there among midas users? He's among the very few heroes who doesnt need midas. midas is for slow farmers who are looking forward to lategame. otherwise with a fast farming hero like BS you don't even need to spend so much gold for a tiny bit of extra GPM.
^that's what i think....
no, midas isn't for slow farmer, it is for slow farmer WITH NO WAY to EVER overcome their snailness.
Bs is among the heroes who don't farm faster with his first few next item, and he doesn't need any item to actually contribute early game. midas isn't a burden to him, countrary to most heroes.
It's probably the only carry on which midas does absolutely no harm, and will always be a little bonus.
1. 5 minutes for every hero
2. Always
3. No, it's not
4. I get Midas after first huge slot like fucking Radiance-BKB-Refresher dogshit.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3304189483
in this game this cancer am picked after me when i thought he wud support so i went to jungle
i went treads armlet then midas, because i was down on levels and needed farm, is this okay?
i went treads armlet midas echo heart ac manta halberd,
i think it shudda been halberd skadi/linkens after ac
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1. What is the timing for getting a midas on core? (I've been told that I only should get it if I could do so under 10 minutes, but that was ages ago)
2. When and why do you get a midas? (if it's after 10 minutes)
3. Is it right if i tell my teammates not to get midas on carries like spectre and anti mage? (They don't have a decent laning phase and often end up 0-8 in the 1st 10 minutes)
4. Do u get midas 1st or stuff like aquila or treads 1st and proceed into midas?
Thanks guys.