You should always let the birds rest after they run out of charges (if no drow aura). Actually, I speculated that it's better to only attack when they have 7 charges (when pushing) . attack -> rest for 2 secs -> attack again etc. Though, I haven't done the math.
If you get countered you will have to rely on your teammates' more, whereas in an optimal match-up you can win the game on your own, so it's not really a good first pick (shouldn't be a big deal in normal skill bracket, though).
Also, I support the XP bonus talent over GPM anytime.
What talent do you prefer at level 20?
I feel like getting midas on the hero but I feel like if I do get midas I will lose all my early game aggro and delay the game. But if I get a solar crest I can just dive and kill.
Also what to 5k+ players do on this hero that 3-4k dont, cause the winrate difference is huge. I dont have a problem with micro I am fairly decent.
Get a drow on your team and ez game. I think most visages I've seen just don't micro birds well so dmg
Output in teamfigjts is crap. Also don't use the birds to stun well. The stun provides so much control in fights.
I guess You could call me a visage spammer, heres some games from yesterday:
https://i.gyazo.com/fe47590d84e6e2a940579c5aebf24193.png
https://i.gyazo.com/8db4f2b1b9c4d0edd3102fb0e692a586.jpg
I use this amazing hero to boost accounts, no shame, so here is some tips from me.
1.The birds aren't "squishy" they are just easy to right click, immediately look for a target to stun once they reach 50% hp
2.Make sure you press Tab when you have your units selected to keep track of bird charges and stunn CD's
3.Never forget about your birds, the moment your hero dies, withdraw them and look for a squishy support to pick off
4.After getting a kill in a team fight with birds, stun someone. The stun will heal your birds and give you time to figure out what your next move is as well as replenish their charges.
5.Always buy solar crest
6.Always buy aghs
7. dobnt be afraid to 1v1. during the part of the mid game at around level 12 - 18 you can pretty much solo kill anyone if you are equal net worth.
8. Your main counters are:
AA
Brew master
Sven
(keep a distance from these)
9.Buy tomes of knowledge to further snowball
10. In pub games I would first pick visage as even against his counters he still plays very well.
11. visage is a weird one when it comes to synergy, he doesn't mind who is on his team if you are playing core visage, but if you are playing support visage you WILL be a burden on the team Until Level 10 When you are able to get the gold talent to purchase more wards and keep up with your solar crest, as the only thing visage does remotely well in lane is avenging the carry after he has died, Visage is a greedy support. This is why I agree that visage should be changed to being a core, he can carry a whole game on his shoulders and can pick up extremely useful items for the team (like AC or Bloodthorn since your birds can crit off of it).
12. You don't need a midas, the only item you need is solar crest to do anything at all.
13. I Feel visage is tanky enough so I just go for double strike at level 20
14. at level 25 always go for bird speed,if the game gets super late game, your hero won't really be needed until you are being pushed as you will use your birds to rat, the move speed helps greatly.
anything else you want any of my opinions on? just ask :>
Yes, just set a control group to select all of your units at once in case you lose one, press the "Tab" button to scroll through you untis quickly and that is pretty much all you need for starting off. Visage is just an easy version of meepo
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/387757549/matches?lobby_type=ranked_matchmaking&hero=visage
Not exactly a spammer but I only lost a few times when played as a core (mostly because I'm a shit support)
I do well in mid in my bracket but not sure if it's a good idea because of the awful attack animation and the last hits which will be missed.
-He's better played offlane, as his attack range is high and he can trade blows and escape with his grave chill while gaining a decent XP.
-His better counters are Bristle Back and Axe, Kunka and Clinkz (Visage playstyle isnt quick enough to react to his high burst)
While many say He's bad against PA, I never have trouble solo ing a PA carry. Birds don't mind the miss chance due to their insane attack speed, your soul assumption is magic damage and the stun helps with his attack speed (you need to react fast though).
if your Ulti is not on cooldown, burst down, stun, then summon new ones ASAP and repeat.
-Best item for him in normal skill is Aghanim's scepter. I don't like Medallion of courage that much because most of the time in fights I'm being hit hard and I don't mind (better than carry being targetted). and in pick offs It's not needed you can kill without it.
-If youre 1v1 in a lane, as soon as you hit level 6, punish enemy's bad positioning. and by bad positioning i mean any place visible to the lane. If you're a Visage and youre not kicking the enemy out of lane you're doing it wrong (It's why Visage mid is a thing). Oh and last hit and deny the crap out of every creep with your familiars.
-If you can guess there's a fight coming don't farm with familiars and keep them over the trees so they gain charges.
-If an enemy support is stupid enough to want to gain some XP in a lane you're farming (happens in offlane), send your birds behind him/her through the trees. and since soul assumption gains charge and has massive range kill him with it (you don't even need to attack him/her yourself, just birds+W). They think they're safe if they're out of your attack range but they are so wrong....
-Unlike Visage , his familiars are not supposed to be in middle of the fight. just use birds to pick off supports on the back line of enemy positioning (go through trees)
-If I'm playing core and if i'm doing well, I get the damage talent and build damage items. Eye of Skadi is greatly underrated. it gives him everything he needs (I don't like EOS on carries because the 25 inteligence is useless but nothing you pay is useless for visage). and the slow is just great, plus the tankiness helps you stay in the fights alot longer.
but If not, get the cast range talent. Oh and gold talent is just way better you do need items (tanky items).
-And the most important hint is, be super aggressive because you can afford to. If you're a Visage and your team isn't winning in midgame It is your fault.
my only tips:
1. Remember that you can chainstun 6x familiars stun
2. A mekans is good situational item in some games
"Also i wanted to know if you are pushing the lane with the birds and they run out of charges do you immeditatly drop them or just keep attacking with them?"
You make controlled hits and finish off with stoneform. Especially with aghanims if you make a hit on each melee creep and then stoneform thrice you get all the last hits.
"What heroes should I avoid picking this hero against or is this a first pick hero? (mid or safelane core)"
If you want to practise the hero you should play it in any scenario really
"Oh also bottle or just bring clarities mid?"
Tranq, Wand, Medallion, Raindrop. You have pretty much infinite staying power like this
General tip though is that Q got very strong with 90 mana cost and 70% uptime, and I started maxing it first. Since regardless of level W deals loads of damage and 65 damage per level isnt that much. Styles and builds differ with role
"Lastly i found that the hero is not that great at taking towers, is the hero like that now due to birds being squishy or am I just playing it wrong?"
Well some sieging potential is there. Birds can barely take towers or towerhits but they are the last one to get aggro. So if creeps are there you freely chip 2 damage in rapid speed. Hero is only by some strechtes of imagination a pusher
I like to go bottle because one of the mid lanes jobs is to control runes, otherwise I bring a mango if i'm playing support
some tips in this thread is so false that i dont know where to begin. One of the main reasons this hero is played terribly is item build.
first, Mid is always the best option, but can also offlane if needed.
dont buy bottle, clarities are enough as you dont need hp because of tranquil and runes are pretty much useless for visage and will only make you lose exp. You dont need dd as you're not the one daeling damage, invis wont work coz familiars duh, haste? you still have to wait for your familiars.
Aghanim is late game luxury item if you have space left. You dont rush this item as you have no reason to but i see this iteme as a first buy soo often FailFish
Solar crest is NOT a core item. Always first buy medallion, but only upgrade it to solar crest of you have nothing better to do. Because 3 more armor reduction for 1450 is the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals. Just buy blight stone for 300 and boom you have solar crest!
Item build is kinda situational for this hero. Follow these steps to decide which item to buy. (*midas is not recommended if you arent insanely confident playing with this hero, so just skip to the next item as you're new)
Can they be disabled with just a rod of atos? (sk-mirana-void etc..)
Yes:
this is a free win, start with a tango and a bracer to speed up your atos. Bracer > medallion > tranquil > *midas > Atos > Hex (agh if they dont have many purges.)
No:
So can they be dealed with an orchid instead because they purge themselves or escape? or has eul buyers?(lifestealer, legion, lina etc etc)
Yes:
Now for this, you start with a tango (also a salve if ure against a hero like qop that hurts visage alot) and a blight stone to speed up our medallion so we can buy orchid faster because its way more expensive than atos.
blight stone > medallion > tranquil > *midas > orchid > atos (orchid with atos is good against euls)> bloodthorn > hex (or agh)
No:
they have so much miss change :( (troll, pa etc)
blight stone > medallion > tranquil > *midas > orchid > bloodthorn > hex > agh
if you're a cheap fuck, ( dont recommend this as solar crest doesnt give enough true strike and will delay your bloodthorn)
blight stone > medallion > solar crest > tranquil > orchid > bloodthorn > hex (or agh)
You are completely forgetting the fact that he is only just starting the hero and also, why atos? It doesn't seem necessary at all!
Also the extra familliar from the aghs is game breaking, in my opinion and good player should consider it core
You should always let the birds rest after they run out of charges (if no drow aura).
birds recharge automatically, not just in stone form.
@parte i see you like going midas after medallion as well
but why would you buy tranquils against anything that isn't zeus?
@AC i already explained it. Visage has trouble catching fast enemies or enemies that has blink abilities like qop sk void mirana am especially at daylight. Atos has insane range and solves that issue really well whilst orchid range is also short like your first skill..
About agh, it gives visage less than %50 damage boost because of third familiar and nothing else. But whats the use of it if you cant even catch and hit enemies? you need your atos or orchid / bloodthorn asap. You dont need agh to kill enemies, your 2 familiars are more then enough. Orchid also amplifies total damage done to your enemy by %30 + disable for the same price. and bloodthorn adds %40 crits and then ampflies all damage done by %30. Only reason i will rush agh is that if we play ultra push team with like brood lone lycan etc.
You should always let the birds rest after they run out of charges (if no drow aura).
birds only recharge automatically after 7.00 update. it wont instantly go up to 7 charges as soon as you rest them like in <6.88
@hanna
visage is the least mobile hero ingame, hes very slow and he cant tp and leave its familiars behind. so you need tranquil to keep up with the speed of your familiars. And without it, you will have hard time using your disables on your enemy and they will run away. This is also the reason we get atos in some games and tranquil also solves your hp regen issue while you solve your mana regen issue by clarities
The hero is very strong. Go mid pretty much always I think. I am not a visage player but I think tranquil+double null+medallion->midas is a good jumping off point. Crest isn't that good, atos is good vs slippery heroes, agha is great.
Newbee.Faith is playing pos 5 Visage right now in MDL game
He won game 1 and pick it again game 2
Hey, guys
Is there any form to change the familiar stun hotkey? I want to change Q to W. I feel more confortable since I have been practicing some meepos.
it uses the same keys for neutrals. So you have to edit your keys for neutral creeps to be able to change it
-Unlike Visage , his familiars are not supposed to be in middle of the fight. just use birds to pick off supports on the back line of enemy positioning (go through trees)
so wrong. if you are the one in the middle of the fight, you will lose cloak charges and that will make your familiars die acccidentally before they will arrive to their target. Familiars are the one supposed to be in fight and you stay behind to guard them with your cloak and disables
Last time I played Visage was well over a year ago, so I really don't know how he is now, and I rarely see him also (I can count the number of times I've seen Visage in one my games with my hands. 7.) But I don't recall him being troubling to play support-style.
@Parte:
"so wrong. if you are the one in the middle of the fight, you will lose cloak charges and that will make your familiars die acccidentally before they will arrive to their target. Familiars are the one supposed to be in fight and you stay behind to guard them with your cloak and disables"
WUT? you guard familiars with cloak?
your familiar's faith depends on your cloak charges. 7.00 update
"The aura affects all Familiars under Visage's control. It grants them damage reduction based on how many charges Visage currently has."
I play position 4-5 visage.
For people who play him mid, i have no idea how you beat any other hero to a CS since his projectile and animation are so goddamned slow.
He's great as a support with a carry like WK or sven. Grave into hammer/blast and you've got 3 W charges for an ez kill.
You can do so much with a position of little expectations
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You guys got any tips on this hero?
The damage output is insane but the birds are so squishy.
Also i wanted to know if you are pushing the lane with the birds and they run out of charges do you immeditatly drop them or just keep attacking with them?
What heroes should I avoid picking this hero against or is this a first pick hero? (mid or safelane core)
Teammates that synergize well?
Lastly i found that the hero is not that great at taking towers, is the hero like that now due to birds being squishy or am I just playing it wrong?
Thanks for the help any advice will be appreciated :)
cheers!