It is not optimal because SF illusions are pretty weak early on. A Sange and Yasha is recommended if you don't want either Shadow Blade or Dragon Lance. You can disassemble it later on.
^What you gonna do with the Sange, make Halberd?
Might as well have DL
Skipping it sounds desperate
can we just avoid getting tracked and get manta aftr SB?
The answer will be irrelevant for you,as you don't have any mechanical skill and knowledge to execute them
u dont have enough slots in lategame for both sb and manta, if you know you will need to have both bkoodthorn and satanic.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3286976944 like idk this game i had
it's not about illusions even just the dispel of silence/track for that game, as well as lack of passives to remove with silver edgeit
and yea ive seen this guides so i notice that its probably ok to skip sb for manta, just it worked so well idk if i should do it all the time
and ^ the perfect answer :v
Manta is a really bad item on SF. His illusions are really weak. Don't buy it unless you really need to.
if sb isnt an escape item, how come i always escape with it? luuuuuuul
ask my friends in 1k, they will all agree as well
i bought dragon lance and bottle before manta tho
and come on i only bought it against storm orchid, silencer and bounty hunter
not every1 in the team will always carry detection. enemy positioning is never always perfect. they will never always be grouped forever. hence there are many opportunities to use sb as an escape item in a game.
pretty sure that as a shadow fiend you don;t want to be in a situation that you need to escape from anyway. just take their soul.
Going from that logic, I'm pretty sure no hero wants to just escape and run around in the game, just take their gold xd.
Ugh.. SB/SE on Shadow Fiend, I cringe when I see that item without the need to "Break" a passive.
well that's kind of the reason why not many skilled players build shadow blade to escape a gank. people tend to play and build items in order to defeat the enemy in a fight, not to run away if you fail it.
^^ I wasn't going to write anything on this, but that is just absolutely wrong and I cannot pretend to not see it.
When you buy any item, most of the time you buy it to fulfill what the hero lacks and suit the team in each game. You don't buy it to solely defeat enemy in fights, you buy it to defeat the match. SB is a good item for escaping situationally, sometimes I need to build SB on jugg/LC for mobility, although the purpose of SB is not 100% for escaping; I would say 30% is for escape, another 70% is for changing the situation of the game such as ganking and 'break' and/or safely split-pushing, basically buying an SB changes the style of the hero to another hero that suits the match more. Otherwise forcestaff, glimmer, etc. would have been trash items
Don't get me wrong, I do agree with your decision to skip SB and go treads DL manta on that game, but I do not agree with your 30 mins-bkb, satanic, and non aquila. When you could've gone for something like 35 mins-butterfly, bkb, skadi or maybe even bloodthorn if you need to.
i don't disagree, i'm not that experienced player to get all the items right. however i didn't want to go butterfly because storm was the main problem, i just wanted some raw health points so he would not be able to kill me instead of the armor/evasion/dps of butterfly. i was about to sell the wraith band for bloodthorn at 40 mins btw but i just took the chance to finish the game instead. and i feel like low sustain build of the butterfly and 2.4k hp of my hero with bloodthorn would honestly be not really more effective than what i made, though.
and yeah, of course the shadow blade is good for escape and putting pressure on the enemy team, probably was my mistake there, proper usage of SB in 3k mmr is so overpowered even, which is why i made this thread, as i'd probably be able to snowball this game all the same if i went for sb instead of manta simply because the enemy wouldn't be able to deal with me anyway due to their lack of skill, even though manta helped me turn and win all of the 5v5 engagements.
and btw i didn't make aquila because i was having problems in lane and was not able to get my farm fast enough due to the lane being 2v1 in mid.
1. Butterfly gives you evasion.
2. Evasion is very good against right click dependent heroes, void storm silencer. It might not directly gives you HP but it gives you the same, if not HIGHER, survivability that you want, PLUS damage+atk speed and armor which is even better against those heroes.
3. Their heroes are not natural mkb builders
4. Another reason why it is not necessary to buy directly giving HP items this game is because you had kunkka's ult
5. Aquila gives you +13 damage and something like 2~3 armor? on top of wraithband which help you in laning stage but the most important is it gives +2 armor for creeps, which will help you push towers alot easier
6. Today I've learnt that i should not argue with you guys, so I'm not replying any further, its up to you to believe me or not
I don't understand where this mentality came from where 2k players think that shadow blade is a "noob item".
I used to play sf with treads yasha bkb manta crits ages ago. I have to change shit all the time cause of meta, counterpicks, laning and so many other shit. Just play with what you need. Discover your role that game, your ability carry it through and just make the fuckng items you need to do that. NO OTHER FUCKING SCIENCE. THAT IS FOR EVERY FUCKING HERO
I don't understand where this mentality came from where 2k players think that shadow blade is a "noob item".
ROFL . i met that kind of player a lot who rush dagger as first item as jugg/void/sf "hey guys look i have blink dagger i dont buy sb , sb is for noob, im a pro player now"
Ugh.. SB/SE on Shadow Fiend, I cringe when I see that item without the need to "Break" a passive.
2539
SOLO MMR
hey guys look i have blink dagger i dont buy sb , sb is for noob, im a pro player now
okay, thanks for the tips fatty
just saying though that i literally ended the game because i healed from 10 to 100% using satanic after wiping almost enemy team that game. but whatever, you're right, i build butterfly in the vast most games anyway.
if not for the heal (our team didn't have any sustain) satanic would surely be worse
Lmao I used to never buy shadow blade because i thought it was a noob item. But no one fucking expects a drow to use Sb to initiate with global silence. Ez fucking game
If you finally can see the path of light (drow sb initiation) will you stop your bullshit towards me? I clearly know what I'm talking about ^
I'll give credit where it's due. I don't deny u could be right about a number of things being 4k, but you're also wrong about a whole lot of other things. Being right about one thing doesn't grant you validity to everything else you say
i think silver edge is still alright as a snowball item if you dont die like two times during saving for ultimate orb so ur item progress stagnates
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against silences + bh/slardar