General DiscussionEncouraging Support Play In Dota 2: Add Permanent Reward Mechanics fo...

1. is far more than a QoL change, it'd destroy the MMR system.
2. seems more reasonable, but would create an environment of enviousness.

While I agree that the willingness to play pos 4/5 is too low in pubs, creating incentives for doing so doesn't seem like a wise thing to do.

Yea you'd just get retards who 'supports' but really go for damage items.

Yes those are e just quick examples, but I think there should be a movement towards increasing support play. I think I would still be better off having a Lion or a Shaman taking some farm in the safe lane with a carry rather than having two carries who can't defend themselves in the early game. Just having that Hex in the lane would be great right? Instead of having that Slark/Lifestealer lane where they're both just constantly flaming each other on chat and whining about not being able to fight/farm.

That's a player-made problem. If the players pick dumb combinations, they deserve to lose. Avoiding such a loss should be enough incentive to consider picking support heroes.

this is the reason why captain's mode is better, people should start playing CM more instead of all pick, but the problem is the long queue time, and captains should be responsible for drafting properly and people will learn to adapt to all roles

Just an example: supported most of my dota life, but its useless since cores are way too trash in my bracket so gonna start learning to mid/carry... One more guy to fight over core positions :))

@Kobby i completely agree, and i do the same thing, but i hope the sub 3k mmr community would atleast try to improve themselves,

i think the solution to the problem is to educate the sub 3k community so they all know the game mechanics, but this one is hard to implement as some people dont take the game seriously and some are not capable of learning these mechanics as this game is free to play, so many uneducated people or children play the game, especially in my country , philippines. I think Valve should improve the tutorial system in which it teaches the game mechanics not just the controls and people should be required to do these tutorials.

I would send "carries" with less than 400gpm straight to the low prio, that would encourage ppl to play supports

@Socram it really is a player-made problem, but in a team of 5 not everybody wants to be picking dumb combinations. For example, a Sniper, Drow Ranger, PA combination would still be very hard to support even with 2 committed support players. Would you say that the 2 committed support players also deserve to lose just because they ended up with those 3 selfish players?

@ryuketsu I agree with having more CM games. I liked that short period when all ranked games were on CM. Games were of better quality, but of course it took longer to start. The short banning phase right now still doesn't do much good.

If the players pick dumb combinations, they deserve to lose. Avoiding such a loss should be enough incentive to consider picking support heroes.

valve please remove all pick in ranked games, or replace it with something better

LUL

5 Support vs 5support incoming

Here come the trolls :)

I feel like its much easier to climb mmr with Supports.

@Mekarazium you are missing the point. I did not say that THIS is what they should be doing. These are just ideas. The biggest point of what I am saying is that there should be a push towards rewarding support play to help encourage people to learn the role and also for a possible improvement in the balance of matchmaking.

Well the reward for playing Support is winning the game. I think thats a whole Lot.

Thing is in the lower brackets there are no postion 4/5, it just a question of item build, for the most part, like a positio 5 in a low mmr game finish the game with boots, meka, aghs and wards, in higher brackets some time a guy finishes the game with boots+wards, because he dewarded, he bough tome/smoke/dust.
I see sometimes, a position 5 in a pro game passing a wave that he could get some gold, but he doesnt because he is warding, he is stacking etc

I get what your saying but any rewards would create issues already mentioned.

You could have something like: a regular support picker gets the right to automatically be the captain in CM mode if they want

Guys, Podrick is just another one trying to fix the eternal dota problem

however I must say, giving +5 mmr to support players is not the way.

1. Picking a "support" hero (ogre, wd, etc.) does not make you a support

2. Even tho I'm not a support player I find it much easier to win games as a support in my mmr bracket because it is the most skill req pos in the game (making it easier to make a dif since the enemy supports rarely know what they are doing in 5k mmr games and below).

3. The MMR you win with each victory does not come out of nowhere, you win +25, enemy loses 25, what do you suggest, the carry and the mid player to lose 30 mmr to balance the additional 5 won by the 2 supports from the opposite team?

4. There is a solution to this problem and it is quite obvious - Role MM, pick your role and start searching (I saw that in another MOBA game somewhere). Ofc most of the people are going to pick core roles, so you will have much faster queue if you pick 4 or 5 role. It is going to solve most of the problems ppl have in solo mm and valve are aware of it, but still don't bother implementing this feature for some reason

Bad players are going to fuck the game up regardless of picks

As a support player, I find it inapplicable tho you sort some good points. Thing is
+All will go support, and at the same time with carry build
+You cannot please everybody to buy wards
+Not all peeps are born martyr. Sometimes they would just run instead of sacrificing their life for their carry
+Picking a support hero is nonsense when you can't even buy a ward or smoke
+Not all people appreciate supporting because at the end of the game ,it's the carry that shines
+Pride is rampant in dota 2. Nobody wants to support; at least a guy or two

Supporting is life therefore it should be respected. You can't let everyone to play the role to only ruin the matchmaking system. Supporting is patience and timing.

^_^ V

i came to conclusion that i'd rather play with a jungler than with two useless supports who think they're hot shit by picking them but they spend their time doing nothing and blaming cores for not winning the game for them

most of the people who pick supports in low mmrs think that their game impact as support begins and ends by buying courier and first set of wards

but i've met some supports that literally solocarried me by good rotations and winning our lanes before 10 mins mark while all i did was hitting creeps/towers and i couldn't do anything more because the game was decided in 10th minute

Supporting in Dota 2 is kinda like trying to play the tank / healer role in wow. Everyone always seems to think they know how to do it better than you but for some reason the team needs another 0 utility dps who can't even press the ridiculous amount of utility buttons they have more than they do the aggro hog / doctor. Everyone knows how to do it but, for some reason you're still getting instaqueues for dungeons and stuff as opposed to 15+ min queues as a dps.

Though honestly, i'd much rather the retards who play as cores every game stay as cores every game. A moron on Pa or Ursa can still score some kills just by right clicking a guy who wasn't paying enough attention. How well would they perform in a situation that relies entirely upon them ghosting just as Sven blinks on top of them so they don't get instacleaved? Supports don't need extra incentive to play Dota. You play support because you WANT TO. Not because you want extra mmr / hats.

This thread should just remind people that Dota is a 5v5 team game. The game itself is not designed for the solo queue hence why solo has so many issues

@Lets do Science
I don't agree. As tank, you pretty much have loot priority. When I'm healing, I always have "failAddon" on so no DPS can blame me for their fails.
Since I don't do pugs often your experience may be different, but when I joined pug as healer on my alt and said that there's only one item I wanted, I got free loot on it.
In my guild DPS usually get the more "flame" cuz recount/skada (When we are not abble to kill boss due to enrage or can't burstdown adds etc)

lul
5 mmr per win
LUL

I also don't think "You play support because you WANT to" works. It depends on what's already been picked on your team and what's needed after. So if people have already picked 3 core heroes, you won't play support because you don't want to? Then that's just the exact situation that I was discussing.

It's funny how a lot of people don't understand the phrase "quick ideas for discussion" and can't even present any ideas of their own. :)

They just cant reward people, for playing a certain position, is not fair with the other 4 players

lol the problems of human society present everywhere

pride is a one of the things that describes us
and it just spits on the meaning of being "social" beings
i mean we can't start a match if that last guy didn't accept the fucking match

it's pitiable isn't it?

What about fixed roles in ranked games like LoL does on their rmm? State 2 roles, queue, join a game, know what role the system assigns you to based on your success rates per role and relative to your teammates success rates on their roles, and suck it up.

Support is garbage
When game goes late 3hard carry is better than shit supports

Support is hard

Supports dont scale good in late game doesn't mean they are useless. There is a reason why they are called supp. I played mostly hard support on my 1st acc( because no one picked them) There was so many time I saved carries from ganks. Rotating keeping watch on other lanes.
At time even just blocking enemies path worked. And making mek quickly turns team fight in mid game most time.
Im not a.good player. My GPM xpm was bad as I let carries take ks cs. End up in 1k MMR after winning 7/10
My MMR increasing now but its painfully slow.
The problem is you'll rarely get a chance to play carry. The whole point is to have fun and doing same role again and again gets boring.

I think making captains mode compulsory is better way to make game more enjoyable and balanced for diff class

Valve should copy LoL's concept of teambuilder where you choose your role before you start queuing for a match, this would discourage players from choosing cores as it would take them longer to find a match,

Daily / weekly quests like Blizzard games have,

Eg: Win 3 games with a support hero , this could get you a prediction token thing.

The best solution is to make people choose their role before playing and you can report people for not olaying their roles.