Great analysis, just a question. What is your suggestion of starting items for a carry vs dual lane with a very harassive support (lich, ogre etc) obviously more regen but 1 salve and 1 set of tangos, 2 sets of tangos? maybe more armor? (basilius + tangos?) And how do you compesate for the lack of lasthits due to constantly going back and eating tango. And at what point do you go back to the well?
Wow, talk about a cold shower!
I knew this was a bad game hence why I wanted you to look at it as that's where you learn the most AFAIK. So thanks a lot for the very detailed feedback. I won't make excuses as some stuff is just dumb (was reading txt message when SD was juking and I reverse ulti'd because teamates where shouting "ULT ULT" in mic and I panicked - but that's my fault not theirs). The 2nd level in slow was a missclick as i always take illusions at 3 though! Always.
However i have a couple questions cause you're pointing out some stuff I was unaware off:
- I always go bracer first as I always build drums on TB and because of the slow I find he can delay boots a bit. Bracer helps with his miserable HP pool. You seem to think that's a bad idea, can you elaborate please?
- For the same reason I always start by belt when I build my treads - bad too?
- My typical build is bracer, treads, finish drums, yasha manta (bkb if needed after yasha, else manta into skadi). Is that not standard and can I improve it?
Verry happy to speak on Skype if you genuinely have the time but once again thanks for all the effort you put into this analysis, it's awesome stuff!
Thanks,
Checkout.
Reported was supposed to be ally chat as some dude was insulting for pausing if I remember correctly - this is not what it seems, I'm only a douchebag about 10% of time :D!
How to play terror.
16 mins all the lane towers are gone, I was playing an offlane terror vs dazzle and slardar.
5 minutes later.....again 5 minutes later, they have already lost.
Which begs the question as to why people farm for 30 minutes before they are willing to do anything with terror.
22 Minute game http://dotabuff.com/matches/593281850
Level 1 slow is enough then just stats to tank you up and illusions etc. Looking at the finishing gold I had about 5K, that is manta right there. So say they did wipe us after two rax? I have a manta now and like 2K gold to spare it would have still been a 25 minute finish.
Small things count like I used my drums when we were taking towers to help get it faster.
@Deadshot magic stick, stout and a lot of consumables...even as a carry pull the lane and get some little creeps. Always be doing something, you stop you die. This is where relying on your supports is key, you out level the enemy you win your lane.
- I always go bracer first as I always build drums on TB and because of the slow I find he can delay boots a bit. Bracer helps with his miserable HP pool. You seem to think that's a bad idea, can you elaborate please?
Its not that it is altogether bad but what does it really offer you as a first item in the laning phase? With boots you can catch people out with your slow, with magic stick you almost have the same durability stat wise and then some
- For the same reason I always start by belt when I build my treads - bad too?
Yes, why go best for the str. when you can go boots for the ms. and get kills.
- My typical build is bracer, treads, finish drums, yasha manta (bkb if needed after yasha, else manta into skadi). Is that not standard and can I improve it?
Stick > Stout > Treads > Wand > Drums > Yasha > Manta > BKB - If you haven't ended the game at this point you are going to have a bad time.
We got a new relentless boys
btw havoc, its posible to win with veno ? 0 % winrate over 9 games i think
Next game, slower due to a farming PA but same result. http://dotabuff.com/matches/593306563 this time playing support TB to a PA and roaming with jakiro.
Venomancer is one of my tops supports and with the right team it is impossible to lose....what do you want to know? You know I wrote a guide on him back in the day right? http://dotabuff.com/topics/2014-02-21-yes-ooh-ah--a-havoc-badgers-guide-to-playing-the-toxic-one-
Mabes.....naked guitar isn't taught though, it is something you must master on your own. Art at its finest.
:'D wuhu! (Assuming the maybe was to me xD)
(Holy crap.. i mispelt "maybe" like 3 times..)
@[NoN] נαкє
Post a game you would like me to analyze and then add me on steam and maybe tonight I can go over it with you. I would need a little bit of time to analyze it and watch it through first.
steamcommunity.com/id/havocbadger
@Havoc
Do you actually play support with TB (e.g. give carry farm, wards, courier, etc) or is that just a early/mid game carry build?
All kinds, http://dotabuff.com/matches/593306563 100% hard support but still picked up a manta well because...terrorblade. If you get towers and kills you get gold which allows him to buy the exact same items as a farming carry.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/563916666 Farming terrorblade, enemies got big and well late game TB can get wrecked quite easy.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/588643551 Roaming/Support, better items, more team gold, shut down carries that could kill me late.
He can be played as a carry, a roamer, a support, a utility. Think of him in the same kinda arena as an alchemist. You can scale well enough to carry or you can utility or you can even hard support.
Going to be testing a blink dagger rush which I think will be the deciding factor of whether I use this long term.
Blink > Ult on low hp either to kill or save
Reflection > Meta > attack and blink to keep up the chase in meta and to avoid assistance coming to save the slowed hero.
If supporting you can blink swap people and I am a fan of mek for him due to like the item early to push and healing team/illusions.
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This is my summary of your Captains Mode game with terrorblade, keep in mind I will be as critical as possible and will be highlighting the bad mostly and point out exceptional plays but going to keep this as informative as possible.
I split most of my viewings into phases
00:00 - 10:00 - The most critical part of the game so will give it special attention.
10:00 - 20:00 - What I refer to as the end of the laning phase where you start to kill, pressure towers and rotation becomes key.
20:00 - 30:00 - The finishing blow of the game and decisions here can make or break a game.
30:00 - 00:00 - The ending bits usually with a lot of split or team pushing and will skip through and comment on anything I see.
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The game has begun and you start with a stout, quelling blade and a set of tangos. You have bought no extra heals and will need to rely on your supports to pull you if the lane goes rough. This is a bad move especially when solo queuing, you need to be aware that you might need to survive on your own and I would not have bout the quelling blade.
Your team is afk and dumb, everyone is sat in base or on the outskirts including you with no warding or early rune control going on. This is sad to see and a lot of the firstbloods can be gotten during this time. I also see you went for metamorphosis first which in my opinion is a terrible move to make as the slow is really what breaks people early game.
You are doing dual lanes and your lane ends up a riki and a lich which will end badly for you if they are good but lets play this out.
1:45 - There is still a haste rune, which both of you can see but NO ONE is going for it. Shadow demon gets out of position and walks into a creep wave and gets jumped. Luckily you are level two and are able to slow the Riki and go into metamorphosis and his health starts to drop. You get of to a good start in the fight but your positioning fails you. Instead of moving and clicking you stand still and auto attack. You don't move which causes the Riki to run you in circles while the lich not only nearly kills off your support but manages to heal up. +1 to juking shadow boy here though.
Example arrow of where you should have been moving towards and the red circle is where you stayed almost the whole time.
You finally kill the Riki because instead of running deeper he runs into your oncoming creep wave. This however is unacceptable. Your support has done an amazing job of juking the lich but you......are getting last hits while he is right besides you dying. What. The. Hell.
Proof:
You nearly kill the lich after some top play by shadow demon but.....you aren't move in front of him as you attack and he gets away with exactly 7 hitpoints just because you want to stand still and get a kill and aren't moving.
2:41 - Lich goes back leaving the riki solo, shadow demon uses the last of his mana on a good disruption (he no creep wave to blink back to) and get this, you run back. You are actually running away from friendly illusions made by your support. You have 193/286 mana you could have at least dropped the slow and tried to do enough damage to push him out of the lane or force a couple tango uses which would have seen your lane won. For not wanting to spend 50 mana you kept riki in the lane not just leaching exp but at this point out last hitting you with a quelling blade. Your first item is a bracer.
3:45 - You take creep damage and allow riki to get a couple hits off on you. You aren't using a tango and lich shows up and nukes you and you get dove and both you and your support die. Lich dies to the tower but no exp, gold or kill is marked for you or your support.
5:00 - The lane is going badly for you. Again you could have dropped riki but you stand still and he gets out last second. At 5 minutes that haste is finally picked up by Bounty Hunter who is rotating. Keep in mind EVERYONE on your team could see it was there, the dire couldn't and somehow you let them take the rune. You are taking constant nukes by running into range carelessly.
The gank comes and your support falls, instead of going on the lich who is literally right besides you, you instead chase a bounty hunter (using your slow) who STILL has a haste and invisibility queued. Where is the logic in that?
You wander back into the lane with riki and lich immediately after the bounty has just ganked and what do you know he is there as well. Easy kill for them. I would also like to note at this point (5 minutes in) you have belt, bracer, quelling, stout but no boots. Do you not see the added benefit of having movement speed?
6:00 - You have already lost the lane as far as I am concerned. Riki is 6, Lich is 6, you're level 4 with barely 10 last hits and shadow demon is afk. Who can blame him though, this is literally the most passive and easy to kill terror I have ever seen. The lanes are shifting and their team is rotating. You go back bot but this riki has tranquils and wraith and is just hell bent on harassing you which he does really well. (gets like 4 backstabs on you)
8:25 - You have no points into your illusions which means even though you were 3 in a lane you can't push and the inevitable rotation comes. They throw things down and bounty hunter makes a dive for you, it will be close but CM comes in time with a freeze and while still close he will go down and you will live. But wait, there's more.....incoming the worst waste of terrorblades ult.
I am literally mad at myself for having to watch that swap over and over to calculate what happened...you actually healed him for 30 hitpoints. Why did you swap him?
You sit at the tower for 1 minute wondering if tracked and farming at 200 hitpoints is a good idea. You don't and finally go back and you heal and teleport and are back to your lane at 10:09 that is 1 minute and 44 seconds of doing nothing which at this stage of the game as the carry is unacceptable.
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End of the first 10 minute run summary:
You are level 6 at 10 minutes in if just barely. You have 2 points in reflection 3 points in metamorphosis and your ult. You have no illusions which is what almost makes or breaks this hero. You have 2 kills and 2 deaths only because you positioning was bad. I did take over on the same spot with the same laning and did 7-0 and 60 cs with the same item build you went in 10 mins.
You need to have a magic stick against a lich and a riki and it can save lives, this whole stacking strength thing just isn't the way to go you need to position better and above all you need to know the limitations and skills of your hero well enough if you want to master it.
At this point I think you know how the game goes and I have seen enough to know this isn't going to end well either. Your laning phase was appalling and you need to reconsider how you spec, build, and play terror or you are really not going to make him an effective part of your arsenal.
If you would like we can skype and watch the game together and I can explain and walk through some of the difficulties you face and as long as you are willing you can improve.
Regards,
Havoc Badger