Well, when i actually feel the same about it, it's only logical cause when you go play 4 stacked, you need 1 guy to make team full right? Do you expect to get it with another stack? :D
The system artificially inflates a stack's MMR to compensate for increased coordination. Essentially, you're playing against players who are below you in terms of their skill rating, yet here you are ranting about how unfair that is to you. Excuses much?
meh...2 stack aint bad. 3-4 stack is just a nuisance. the dam confidence they get in being a stack and trolling the sht out of that 1 or 2 guy for no reason or just that small move is ridiculous. i just mute them basically and play as usual. if they trolling among each other then its okay but when that 1-2 guy is getting it. its really a nuisance lol.
I hate having 4man stacks on my team while solo que'n because they never say shit in chat and expect you to know what they are saying
^^^^^ i would love to see calucations behind it I bet they are similar in complexity to old report system
I doubt it inflates the stack's MMR artificially, that's what Party Rating is for, it's supposed to be better than your solo rating unless you keep stacking with people worse than you. Previously when there was only one rating it probably used to do that, but it wouldn't make sense now.
"and why am I getting peaople in my team with lot less wins...." Rofl like amount of wins would define skill
Solo ranked que, put with a 2stack, they both pick supports, they lane together and leave me, the hard carry, solo the safelane, they both feed and we lose, 4200+ mmr, I understand people wanting to play with their friends but holy shit no need to toss the game because you want to suck your friends dick.
I have 430 wins on this account and I am miles better than alot of people with 2k+ wins
@Zenoth "we adjust the effective MMRs based on the number of players in the party and the distribution of skill within the party" - taken from http://blog.dota2.com/2013/12/matchmaking/ refers to the artificial inflation of stack aggregate MMR during the matchmaking process. There's a thread in the dev forums with a Valve employee explaining how matches are formed which goes into further detail about how they deal with stacks.
@Poroski Technically, it does (in the context of RMM). To be more accurate, skill is dependent on your ratio of wins to losses. This is in line with your MMR going up/down with respect to wins/losses. You may argue that this is a poor measure of skill, but it is the measure currently being employed.
the only time it's annoying is when you have to be some 4 man party's punching bag because it's easier to blame the nobody than your friends
I'm always surprised by people confused about this concept. Let me give you an example: a 4 stack has queued. Do you not understand the necessity to have solo queue players match up with parties now?
It's pretty legit.
When the opposite team has stacks, they are usually lower individually skilled (average between the stack) _if_ your team has no stack.
I rarely lose to 5man stacks if there barely are stacks in my team, if none. Often I get matched vs a 4stack with no stacks in my team and it usually ends up in stomps. (That's my theory.)
However, if the opposite team is decent and good communication it may be a problem, however if you're a decent player yourself you should predict fast rotations and stuff, aka be pretty fine. Do your best, pick what fits and dont write/flame to your team-mates and stay focused. All you need to win games))))
4 man & 2+2 stacks are the most annoying. Sucks more then none of them pick support and opt for carries.
@cartographer
I'm talking about amount of wins and you start talk about winrate, like wtf dude technically/literally/whatever not same thing. And thanks for clearing out how Elo/MMR systems work, I must have somewhere said something that gave impression that I didn't know???
Compared to how bad mm is in general I wouldnt even bother talking about stacks in solo queue.
If Valve was really interested it getting matching right there would be no option for queing with 4 players. If you had 4 players it would say... "error you have 4 players, you must have 2 or 3 or 5 to find a match".
You can have fair games with 2 + 3 vs 3 +2, or 5 v 5. Trying to mix in solo players is what causes so many problems. Valve just chooses to accept far low quality matches to force games to que faster by mixing solo and stacks. Solo que should put you in a game with 10 solo players every single time and nothing else. Even 2+3 vs 3+2 games still have the problem of large MMR ranges but its no where near as bad at when you mix in solo que players.
Valve should allow players to lock regions and languages. So when you searched for only English and only US East... it should be possible to choose to exclude matching with anyone who picked anything except only English and only US East. Obviously they already do this for the game mode. No one ever selects only All Pick and ends up with people trying to play a Captains Draft game. They just choose to ignore your preference selections for server and language because they value shorter que times over quality.
The only way to choose quality is to cancel searches and manually force the system to have a small search range. But even that will not prevent you from being placed in party games while in solo que. Nearly all solo ques are matched to a party que game.
Hey Relentless...shoutout man. Like your mostly analytical posts about matchmaking.
Before I joined my current job, 1 year ago I interviewed with a company for the position developing RMM algorithms for their games. I didn't get the job unfortunately, but I learnt a lot about RMM systems throughout the long interview process. I lost the job to a statistics PhD who was a non-gamer.
There were some issues that I had differing viewpoints from the management
1) I believed that their game should either have 1v1 or 5v5 queuing only, no mixbags of 2+ 1+ 2 vs 3 + 1 +1. While people have reasonable rights to play with just 1 friend in a big team game, they must understand that it fucks up matchmaking big-time. WHY?
Because matchmaking has to be
-FAIR. Inter-team wise, equal expected team performance.
-ENJOYABLE. Intra-team wise, equal expected individual performance.
Then, big problems comes up when high MMRs just want to queue with their low MMR girlfriend or buddy. By definition it's no longer ENJOYABLE for the rest who are teamed with them (would you like Dendi to be mid while Dendi's mum is playing hardlane solo?). If Dendi queues with iceiceice obviously it doesn't matter if you consider their predicted performance to be closer to Dendi's or Iceiceice's. But if Dendi (6k) and his mum (1.5k) queues together, how the hell do you predict performance for FAIRness?
2) The company wanted matchmaking preferences to include preferences for support/carry. This is just a shithole of complications that shouldn't even be discussed!
solo que should be solo.... 10 man solo que... if you wan't to play team ranked -----------> find 4 more friends... I hate when I have to play stacks in solo que and then I get players in my team who have far less games played.... this is some bullshit...
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This is bullshit... why are there stacks allowed in solo rating matchmaking...? What's the fucking point?