I partially agree with jams. DB is selling analysis of free data. It is not illegal in anyway. Valve is providing free stat, DB is just presenting it with a neat UI and in-depth analysis. But DB collected information via a backdoor in client API, which is illegal. And when shut down(which was a right decision but came very late from valve) they started crying and indirectly asked it's members to flame valve.
Valve preventing others from using client API is not wrong but what they did wrong was that they didn't gave any time for DB to migrate from client API to webAPI. Had they given them a week notice and help them ease from one API to other, there wouldn't have been this huge cry. Well there will be since DB wanted to earn money off some stats which AS OF NOW is not available via webAPI.
DB is doing a great job keeping the site ad free, providing their services for free. So if they ask money from those who can afford for some premium service, I or rather anyone shouldn't have any problem. But what upset me was the unprofessional behavior from both Valve and DB.
Finally some voices of reason, I really like two last posts.
Just need little clarification.
"DB collected information via a backdoor in client API, which is illegal."
Is it really? By the way, there was no other way to get that information till now, because web API was not working, so it's hard to blame Dotabuff for using client API.
Don't forget that Valve also removed replay access in order to facilitate their "privacy" implementation. This is the biggest blow to the community in the recent changes. Privacy setting screwed up DBR and associated features on DB as the best player on certain hero, skill bracket build orders and similar. But the replay removal screws up substantially more!
So the point is not whether DotaBuff will use the WebAPI or not - they will. Valve could have handled the transition better, but they obviously don't care to. But with "privacy", DotaBuff have to give up the DBR and most of their Premium model was based around it. So they would have to move other features to the premium tier, a loss for the community. And with replay removal, they lose so much more functionality that the point of the whole site is under question...
As for somebody else stepping up and providing a stats site - with the magnitude of players Dota 2 enjoys it would not be a simple task and the cost of running it may be well into hundreds of even thousands of $ per month. Also don't forget that the data collection for DotaBuff has been going on for almost a year (it used to be stats.dota2.be). Catching up would be a serous problem.
It is very easy to play the blame game. @FelStyle DB's method of collection used a technique which fooled the system into believing that a dota 2 client is trying to access the information. But as you mentioned the web API development was put on hold. Although it was illegal that was the only way DB could access data hence it was not blocked before by valve. Valve decided that by giving out web API they could effectively control the flow of information. It is a bummer to the community but it is Valve's product so they have every right to do what they want.
But blaming it entirely on Valve is not the best solution either. I love what DB have contributed so far. I was disappointed the way DB reacted to this whole change of API. It was very childish of them encouraging people to flame the community.
With web API in place, valve will develop it more so that more stats are accessed. DB was not only the major concern about the privacy. What DB did was to collect data, while some other 3rd party could have done more that we dont know. This privacy thing was to block 3rd party direct interaction with the dota 2 server using the backdoor in dota client API.
It is a wait and watch game now how valve develop it's web API and how useful it is. On ending note, as jams said it is not easy maintaining a site of this magnitude with so much data, heavy traffic and no ads. They DESERVE to earn their dues.
No the privacy thing was removing player id from the match results and removing replay access. It has nothing to do with which API was used to access the data and both are asinine in my point of view. If the WebAPI had the proper functionality, DotaBuff could have switched in a matter of days, though the proper way for Valve would have been giving them time to migrate.
Jams, well explained.
I partially agree with jams. DB is selling analysis of free data. It is not illegal in anyway. Valve is providing free stat, DB is just presenting it with a neat UI and in-depth analysis. But DB collected information via a backdoor in client API, which is illegal. And when shut down(which was a right decision but came very late from valve) they started crying and indirectly asked it's members to flame valve.
Valve preventing others from using client API is not wrong but what they did wrong was that they didn't gave any time for DB to migrate from client API to webAPI. Had they given them a week notice and help them ease from one API to other, there wouldn't have been this huge cry. Well there will be since DB wanted to earn money off some stats which AS OF NOW is not available via webAPI.
DB is doing a great job keeping the site ad free, providing their services for free. So if they ask money from those who can afford for some premium service, I or rather anyone shouldn't have any problem. But what upset me was the unprofessional behavior from both Valve and DB.
Finally some voices of reason, I really like two last posts.
Just need little clarification.
"DB collected information via a backdoor in client API, which is illegal."
Is it really? By the way, there was no other way to get that information till now, because web API was not working, so it's hard to blame Dotabuff for using client API.
Don't forget that Valve also removed replay access in order to facilitate their "privacy" implementation. This is the biggest blow to the community in the recent changes. Privacy setting screwed up DBR and associated features on DB as the best player on certain hero, skill bracket build orders and similar. But the replay removal screws up substantially more!
So the point is not whether DotaBuff will use the WebAPI or not - they will. Valve could have handled the transition better, but they obviously don't care to. But with "privacy", DotaBuff have to give up the DBR and most of their Premium model was based around it. So they would have to move other features to the premium tier, a loss for the community. And with replay removal, they lose so much more functionality that the point of the whole site is under question...
As for somebody else stepping up and providing a stats site - with the magnitude of players Dota 2 enjoys it would not be a simple task and the cost of running it may be well into hundreds of even thousands of $ per month. Also don't forget that the data collection for DotaBuff has been going on for almost a year (it used to be stats.dota2.be). Catching up would be a serous problem.
It is very easy to play the blame game. @FelStyle DB's method of collection used a technique which fooled the system into believing that a dota 2 client is trying to access the information. But as you mentioned the web API development was put on hold. Although it was illegal that was the only way DB could access data hence it was not blocked before by valve. Valve decided that by giving out web API they could effectively control the flow of information. It is a bummer to the community but it is Valve's product so they have every right to do what they want.
But blaming it entirely on Valve is not the best solution either. I love what DB have contributed so far. I was disappointed the way DB reacted to this whole change of API. It was very childish of them encouraging people to flame the community.
With web API in place, valve will develop it more so that more stats are accessed. DB was not only the major concern about the privacy. What DB did was to collect data, while some other 3rd party could have done more that we dont know. This privacy thing was to block 3rd party direct interaction with the dota 2 server using the backdoor in dota client API.
It is a wait and watch game now how valve develop it's web API and how useful it is. On ending note, as jams said it is not easy maintaining a site of this magnitude with so much data, heavy traffic and no ads. They DESERVE to earn their dues.
AAAaaaand once again.
No the privacy thing was removing player id from the match results and removing replay access. It has nothing to do with which API was used to access the data and both are asinine in my point of view. If the WebAPI had the proper functionality, DotaBuff could have switched in a matter of days, though the proper way for Valve would have been giving them time to migrate.