The International 2025 Wishlist
Our annual The International blog posts always started with TI lauded as the “biggest esports event of the year”. It was always a celebration of Dota, the showcase of the highest level of play in the deepest, most complex online game there is and we believe that this is still true. However, it is impossible to deny that this year TI was a bit lacklustre and today we would like to discuss some things that could return it to its former glory.
Meta shake-up
The frequency and the sheer size of updates the last couple of years were awesome. The introduction of facets and the increase in the map size made the game considerably more interesting to play at all levels. It also led to some balance issues and we feel like there are two main ways to address this.
One is to methodically and meticulously balance a patch, starting some time ago before a TI. This was the approach taken previously and to a certain extent it was the approach this year as well. Making a “perfect” patch is impossible, but striving for it over the course of the year to culminate in a Tournament with high hero and strategy diversity is possible. This year roughly 17% of heroes were completely ignored, with multiple heroes having 90%+ contest rate.
The problem with this approach is that it leads to a rather stale pub meta and no new content updates. Personally, we believe that balancing around the professional scene is good for the professional scene, but it doesn’t necessarily make for a better game for us, the players. Valve’s approach the last couple of years, one we fully welcome, is to cater towards the regular players, so perhaps the slow and steady route simply isn’t an option.
In that case, maybe having a TI-specific patch, released very close to the tournament start could be a solution. Professional players are the quickest to adapt and being flexible is definitely one of the more important skills in Dota. Let flexibility and adaptation be the main focus, rather than the execution of the best strategy.
We firmly believe that a new, Major patch released a week or so before the tournament could result in a very weird, but a very interesting TI, with a clash of many ideas and playstyles. Would the level of play be the same, as when teams get months to prepare? Certainly not. Would it be more entertaining? Possibly, and it is a risk worth taking in our opinion.
Better group stage
The Group Stage this year was very similar to the Group Stage we had in The International 2023 with one key difference — there were less teams. In our opinion it made the Group Stage very low stakes and not particularly fun to watch.
In years prior, with only two groups, the seeding was the main focus and because of it they were exciting, while also allowing for more games. Last year, the groups were exciting because one of the teams would get eliminated.
This year, we had neither. Four groups of four battling it out for nothing, but a chance to select an opponent for a single BO3 to decide their seeding is just a weird format. It is not “unfair” by any means and every single victory and loss were well deserved. From a spectator side of experience, though, it just felt like busywork: games played for the sake of games being played.
Given how it is Dota and it is definitely a fun game to watch, there is nothing particularly wrong with it, but having Group Stage matter more is certainly something we want to see next year.
Grand finals day
Finally, there is a question of Grand Finals and it’s been said before, but we firmly believe that the most important series of the tournament deserves its own day. Yes, it will somewhat eliminate the upper bracket advantage and yes, it will extend the tournament. However, it is a compromise that should be at least considered.
Last time we had an excellent TI Grand Finals series was back in 2021 and at this point we have to admit that coming into a BO5 potentially exhausted after the lower bracket finals is just not good for Dota as a spectator sport.
We want our athletes fresh and at their best, not fatigued. It could still lead to a sweep, it could all still end in a boring series, but at least we would be certain it is because one team is that much better, not because one team just had to go through almost three hours of intense Dota for a chance to play more Dota.
Closing thoughts
We deliberately didn’t touch on what many consider to be an elephant in the room — the prize pool. Because, if we are being honest, we don’t think it is what matters to TI. It is definitely a Tournament status thing and maybe some players are better motivated by bigger rewards and maybe they would be playing better, but we don’t believe it has a major influence on the level of play.
The International is a festival of Dota. It is when history is made, when the champions are crowned and when the community comes together to enjoy the highest possible level of competitive play. The only thing the prize pool changes is the comparison to other games and potentially the viewership numbers from people checking out what all the fuss is about.
For us as Dota players, though, does it really matter whether there are more people watching? Does having more viewers enhance the actual experience of seeing what incredible plays the best players in the world manage to pull off and what crazy strategies they try to utilise? Personally, I don’t think so, but I do think there are ways to make the Biggest Esports Event of the Year even more interesting and entertaining.
well said sir!
It matters that more people watch because there's an opportunity to solidify this as an industry. The more people interested, the bigger focus is put on making a product that works. I want Valve to continue viewing this as a growing product, not something to leave like TF2. I want orgs to commit to 30 year investments and have actual full-year tournaments with statistically driven invites to TI. I want highlights reels. I want purpose built stadiums.
You're right that the teams probably play as hard as they can; you can see it in the eyes of Blitz. I understand that less viewers doesn't matter in and of itself. But if Dota becomes unprofitable, the presentation suffers. That matters a lot to me.
Two big points you put forward should be considered a bit more.
The concept of tried and tested strategies is nothing new in warfare. Obviously as technology and landscape changes so should strategies. That's why having a disruptive patch close to a TI will bring out the most adaptive combatant. However it punishes the analytical player, which is a little unfair thus preventing the mind blowing big strat win. So the timing of the patch should bring out the best of both groups.
Being a 'Professional' eSport means players make their living from what they do, and as such like most sports players will shine bright young and end their careers a lot earlier than the rest of us. The prize pool probably shouldn't be as big as what we saw in 2022. Should the game be supported enough so that the pro players get good sponsorships. Then that would be a better revenue income, with the Ti shield being the pinnacle prize of the year, with a little extra pocket money on the side. Valve's approach to make the game better for us normal peeps will hopefully do exactly this.
If you watch only one game from this TI. It needs to be the Lower Bracket Finals game 3. That was peak Dota and I can't blame the GG team feel a little deflated after that. It was one of the longest games of the entire tournament and it was played on a razor's edge for a good while there. It could have gone either way...
The meta was strong in this one though and the strategies felt a bit stale. With fewer teams and games there was less brains working on breaking the meta and less time to do so. So it was what it was. The meta was not completely stale though. It started with WR and Kunkka and they largely went away towards the end of the tournament. Also Mirana sort of got figured out...
Am seeing a lot more of Puck, Luna and WR in my pubs now... I just hope they get out the post TI patch soon and Crownfall part 4, since that thing is supposed to be ending in like 3 weeks or so.
And the money does matter. I don't get it why they said no to money a year ago and decided to gut the prize pool of the TI. I get it, it was getting out of hand, but there is a happy medium there somewhere. With some nice cosmetics to throw into the Compendium and get the prize pool to a decent level from the floor we have now. I doesn't have to be 40+ million like it was at it's peak, but a nice 10-15 would be nice for the players and would fund the game development well too.
i miss all star match...
Prize pool is not about money so far, it's a reflection of the TI festival we used to enjoy. Battlepass was something like a Christmas gift for players, because it's something that lets you understand, that something great is coming. You wanted to play dota, you wanted to support devs, in exchange for experience of the festival, you enjoyed BP content, and then you enjoyed another greatest Dota 2 tournament of all time... Untill 2023, of course. If you pay a bit more attention to scene, casting, studios, you'll understand how much money they started to save. Why? No idea. It was a successful business plan with BP, these arcanas, that brought money to Volvo and they just refuse it now, and TI becomes just another DPC major event, but not something special anymore.
Don't know, after all looks like they're completely sure the decision was right and they're not going to change anything, so they're good with what it looks like now. Do they care about dota anymore? I have no idea
And yeah, something else to mention. What kind of an International is it, where we have 4 tier-1 teams and all the others would never even qualify to it. What kind of International is it, if we have 8 absolutely tier-322 teams that should've never been here. ScamBoom, talon, heroic, beastcoast, 1scam, IG and some others are absolutely not a TI-level teams. Just so sad that with DPC season gone we have bunch of teams where nothing changes for like 2 years, because there are no new players
I'm getting this sinking feeling Valve is gonna look at all this negativity being thrown around the internet and just not do TI14
@Lior You basically said what I was attempting to get at in the previous blog post. This TI didn't even feel like TI, just another ordinary DPC tournament. Almost like a farewell to DPC at this point.
And do they care about Dota? I still feel like they do, but it also feels like a lot of Valve's project power is going towards Deadlock. Not that it's a bad thing, I think we should actually let Valve develop a new game and even new IP for once in what feels like a decade now.
I saw deadlock
That doesn't seem like something where valve put a lot of effort at all.
Now they seem to be more focused on CS and dota is like a rudiment, one of the still surviving mobas, 1 outta 2 so far. And looks like it's not lol what's dying next
I genuinely don't know where a lot of this doom and gloom is coming from, to be honest. In the last two years we got two massive gameplay updates, one making the game 40% bigger and the other increasing the hero pool by a lot. Is the facet system still slightly underbaked and in need of multiple balance passes? Sure. Is it making the game even deeper and more fun? I think so.
On top of it, Crownfall is by far the biggest "cosmetic" event we've had in Dota and a very, very good change to Cavern Crawl. I agree that TI at this point feels like an afterthought and the absence of the Battle Pass is part of it, but this is, realistically, cutting into only one thing for 99.999% of the Dota population: bragging rights, when comparing Dota to other games in terms of tournament prize pool.
The game doesn't attract a lot of many new players, but the ones who come are here to stay, since it is kind of hard to play anything else after tasting Dota. So it is highly unlikely it will enter the death spiral in the foreseeable future — matchmaking, considering the complexity of the game, works well for all, but the absolute top 0.1% of the playerbase.
Also, I really don't know where the idea of CS getting more attention than Dota comes from. CS been mostly the same game for 20+ years now, while Dota constantly gets improved and iterated on.
@KawaiiSocks
Not sure about the others, but I was mostly talking about The International and how Valve seem to be handling it. Valve are still knocking it out of the park with all the gameplay updates. 7.33 and then 7.36 the following year, bringing forth the new map and facets and innates, have just been nothing short of revolutionary.
It's just that the OTHER main appeal for players, old and new, is The International and the Compendium has definitely fallen short. I do remember Valve saying that they're turning their focus away from one massive event a year (often times in tandem with TI) to slightly smaller events that are spread out across the year, but many others, myself included, were still hoping the Compendium would still include some more things than what we ended up getting.
I disagree with all the others that Dota 2 is on its death bed, those people are totally being melodramatic. Concerning with how massive these updates have been recently, it seems Valve has got plenty of tricks up their sleeve for this game, but I just hope TI14 and its Compendium will be a bit more jam-packed with things as well. I rather miss the days when it had the immortals and the treasures and such. Obviously, Valve can't just make every single year filled with massive cosmetic and feature giveaways, so I hope they can find a good balance.
Hey @kawaii
I trust you so much that if u say somethin in dota is right, then it is. however u said updates were too good and they added too much to the game. I must mention I have 2 other close friends. 2 of us play dota 2 and the other one we have recently tried to take to games with us. guess what? we tried so hard to teach him dota and we failed.
this game is 0% attractive for new players. this is tooooo complex and right now is even more complex than ever! it took him 10 games (consider it 7-8 hours) and he still struggles to buy items. to explain him the way Facets work and when to get back, when to fight and when to take objectives, takes a life time... (not knowing this makes him getting killed everytime) it made him frustrated and he deleted game afterwards. then we took him to game center to teach him how to ply once again. he said this game is just too much for me and refused to ply this with us in any ways.
I ply this game at weekends and I mostly lose because I think this is not a game to ply casually. playing CS and Code is more fun and brain can adapt it faster.
whenever we ply at weekends we're like: oh so this thing has changed, and the next week we see it gone. I find these updates really annoying for "casual players and new players" and why do you think CS has still top players? (the high population of Dota2 is not because of updates, but becacuse the game itself right? so all these fast paced updates may not be necessary)