One Week With 7.08
Image by kunkka
7.08 came with a lot of minor changes, however their impact was more substantial than one could assume. A total of 23 heroes were changed in the patch, along with 11 items and the combined effect of these changes was enough to shift the meta into a slightly new direction.
7.08 was mostly a nerf patch — a rare occurrence in the world of Dota 2. It attempted to deal with some of the more problematic heroes in rather non-intrusive ways, as was always the case, highlighting their weak spots, rather than making their strong aspects weaker.
The end result can’t be called perfect, but it definitely was a step in the right direction, with overall win rate spread for heroes tightening around the “ideal” 50% mark.
The pub scene is still filled with dominant heroes with 57%+ win rate, but none of it is close to what Abaddon and Omniknight once had: at their peak there were patches where these heroes won over 60% of their games. More importantly, some of the more problematic heroes at the higher levels of play have received some very necessary nerfs, making Dota a healthier game.
Juggernaut
A minor change to the critical hit values had a surprisingly substantial effect on the win rate of the hero. Juggernaut lost roughly 5% of his expected damage with this nerf and a slightly over 1% drop in win rate was unexpected.
What was even more unexpected is the reasoning behind the nerf. Juggernaut wasn’t a dominant force in the professional scene and while he was among the better heroes in pubs, he was far from being overpowered. In fact, in the last month, he was winning more than 50% of his games only in the 3k-5k range games, while having ~49% win rate in the lower brackets and in the highest one.
Juggernaut is a stape Dota hero, he is one of the oldest additions to the game and one of the first cores newer players are introduced to. He still retains his popularity, despite becoming a little bit weaker and is still picked in the professional scene, even after his win rate drop he still remains a solid hero for when you need a reliable core with good impact at all stages of the game.
Pugna
Pugna’s win rate is showing a minor, yet consistent upward trend since the 7.08 patch. After a period of dominance in the professional scene, he was almost forgotten for a short period and seems to be back now. The hero has been consistently picked in the DAC qualifiers and fills the niche of magic damage pushing cores, that has an added benefit of being able to prevent the enemy casters feeling too much freedom.
The changes to his talents in 7.07 coupled with a talent for extra Nether Ward health in 7.08 made the latter a very potent spell that shuts down many supports with high mana cost ultimates, such as Shadow Shaman and Lion. It is also invaluable at dealing with Tinker and severely restricts the Sand King initiation combination. Overall the hero is currently in a good place with almost 47% win rate in pubs, but a very strong presence in the pro scene.
Nature's Prophet
Nature’s Prophet received a rather interesting buff that accelerated his farm and further increased his map pressure potential. The cooldown for level 1 Nature’s Wrath was reduced by almost 25%, allowing him to continuously keep the waves pushed in, while increasing his gank readiness.
The end result is a ~3% win rate increase for the hero, currently sitting at 44%. The hero is far from being dominant, however he does perform better in higher level pubs and in the professional scene. The hero requires some micro skills and a very good understanding of lane momentum and map control to be fully effective, hence it is clear how he only really works in the hands of more experienced players and with teammates who understand the concept of split-pushing and can utilise the provided space to be effective themselves.
Given how the hero is played in high level pubs and in the professional scene, he is probably one minor buff away from becoming a sizeable force to be reckoned with.
Tinker
The drop in win rate should warm the hearts of most players. It wasn’t a massive nerf, it didn’t take away from the hero's core strengths, but it made dealing with Tinker a lot easier.
Tinker lost 15 Movement Speed, putting him at 290 at level 1. This nerf made him a lot more susceptible to ganks and early rotations, as well as a possible target for the enemy mid solo kill. The impact of such changes should not be underestimated.
His current almost “perfect” 50% win rate is an accomplishment. Late game Tinker is still one of the hardest carries in the game with a permanent disable and a ton of magic and pure damage, but now there is a much better chance of delaying this monstrosity from coming online.
Tinker now is a very risky pick, but the rewards are still as high as they ever were. When playing against him try to shut him down as much as possible and when playing with Tinker on your side try to protect him as much as you can — the hero really needs it now.
Closing Thoughts
When Valve and IceFrog announced a new approach to Dota patching most of the community got excited and for a good reason. No longer will we have long months of stale pub meta or heroes running rampant and if the first of such patches is any indication — it was a step in the right direction.
It didn’t attempt to solve all of the minor problems the game has, instead tinkering with some values in a controlled environment with many variables staying constant. Given how this approach will last all the way until The International 8, we might be in for a very good treat at the end of the competitive season.
I was pretty suprised to see how hard Jug's winrate fell when I checked it the other day. I guess it's justified since he had the best crit in the game, an honor that PA should have had.
I usually give Grace to a few typos in these articles, but isn't Pugna a dude? The pronouns "her" and "she" are used in... "It's" paragraph.
The real cause of jugg winrate is because i'm spamming it x)
@F4th0m0r9: indeed Pugna is a "he".
I also lament the lack of rigour in these articles. The central claim of this post is that Valve is following an approach of "highlighting weak spots instead of weaking strong aspects." And then follows a list of four heroes, with 2 overall buffed (Pugna, Nature's Prophet), and among the 2 overall nerfed heroes (Juggernaut, Ttinker), only Tinker serves to illustrate the central claim.
If Dotabuff is to set the bar higher than your daily eSports tribune, please aim at harmonizing claims, examples, and explanations.
Во-первых, Кавай, выучи ты наконец английский.
Во-вторых, Пугну называть "она"- это уже перебор. Такая ошибка простительно разве что моим 2к тиммейтам, которые играют в доту второй месяц. Для них и Пугна, и Урса, и Энигма- всё "она".
I'll just leave this here
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3727928057
@Burger Time
That's exactly why they teach maths in school.
PA crit: 15% crit chance × 450% crit dmg + 85% no crit chance × 100% normal attack dmg = 152,5% average dmg enhancement.
Her crit increases her average dmg output by more than 50%.
Old Jugg: 35% × 200% + 65% × 100% = 135% average dmg enhancement.
New Jugg: 35% × 180 + 65% × 100% = 128% average dmg enhancement.
His crit is more consistent but was never close to PAs.
SF every game is super boring hope they nerf him hard in the next patch
Lyle bcs even i can smurf into tha5 bracket with sf ofc they r super boring bcs sf stomp mid really hard
PUGNA IS MALE!!!
Pugna is male tho, with the voice of hoovy and alcoholic black man.
I changed the Pugna pronouns) Sorry about the confusion, it is a very old habit of sorts stemming back from W3 Dota days. Pugna sounds like a noun with a female gender in Russian and old habits die hard. Same with Ursa and Enigma as well. And I don't have voiceover for heroes in game and don't play Pugna regularly enough anyways for it to flip back in my mind.
Regarding the central point of the article, I've mostly looked at the heroes with highest win rate differences affected by the patch, rather than looking for specific cases which would back up the claim, that still holds true. Most of the heroes nerfed, including Lycan, Dusa, Omni etc. didn't change much in terms of their pub presence or win rate. "This hero lost 0.5% win rate" makes for a rather boring storyline. Thanks for feedback though — will definitely try to find a more appropriate angle in the future, if the examples I am providing are not necessarily fully in sync with the main claim.
@Kevin The Fateful
Тут как раз проблема в том, что в доту играю слишком много лет и для меня Пугна, Энигма и Урса всегда будут барышнями. Про английский не совсем понял)
@KawaiiSocks
There's something to be said about the buffs you mentioned that act as inderect nerfs to popular heroes however, especially in the case of Pugna. Any buff to Natures will also mess with Dusa, possibly forcing her to opt for extra split shot targets.
did u just assume Pugna's gender!?
@KawaiiSocks, бывает делаешь глупые ошибки. Признаю, в этом тексте их не нашёл. Статья, в которой первый раз обратил внимание на это была посвящена Киевскому мажору. Переодически по-прежнему бывает.
Не хочу, чтобы мои комментарии звучали грубо- прошу прощения, если вдруг задел.
juggernaut is a stape dota hero
lol ^ why are russians writing articles in english....also a team's carry is their primary tower killer...explain how tinker does that? he's not a damn carry noob, he's tempo and hero control,...'hardest carries in the game' my ass
^ people think tinker is a hard carry because of perma disable
Someone takes the term carry a bit too literally. We're talking carry as in 'hero that does better with a high farm priority' not 'safelane farming hero'. Carry doesn't have a hard and set definition outside of what I just said, so I think tinker does count as a hard carry, just that he's a mid caster and not a safelane right-clicker. Think of him like a spectre or dusa, he needs lots of space and some time, but give him that and he'll turn into a lategame monster that will make the enemy want to commit suicide, just like said carries.
@Sleight of My Fist In You...
There are lots of carries that don't focus on being the hardest hitters to towers. While they certainly can put out a lot of damage to towers, the main focus of heroes like Slark, PA, Ursa, Lifestealer, Tinker, Ember, or Blood (if we're being even more liberal with the definition) is not to take out towers, but to take out heroes to allow a safe, if lengthy, tower seige. None of these heroes are going to be jumping to grab heavy pushing items like radiance or manta to mow down creeps and towers. None of them have abilities to aid this either, like Razor, Drow, Clinkz, Brood, Luna, Dusa, AM, Arc, Chaos, or Gyro do. Traditionally, sure, most carries have a high physical damage output, but it's not unheard of to see Meepo, Tinker, or even Storm Spirit given priority farm while playing the 'teamfight carry' role for lack of a better term, as opposed to the tempo role which relies a little more on pickoffs and initiation.
These terms are certainly helpful, but I'd say it's good to understand that the terms are only a generalization of a responsibility in a given match, and considering you have five players, the roles you pick can shift around a little. There are options for having two farming cores and no mid tempo role, or the now dead offlane morph 'harass and retreat', sometimes also employed with an offlane Weaver.
Other farm priority heroes that don't have to rely on their tower damage: old Necro, Faceless, Huskar, old Slardar, Bristleback, Abaddon, Centaur. Notice that most of these heroes also don't often appear as a carry, but have the option to do so.
Why isn’t sleigh of fist or whatever permanently banned? The guy is pure cancer in every comment section
all these guardian players and crusader players talking about winrate affecting their games and all LOL and dis tinker carry argument is stupid do u guys think carry means u have to go and right click enemy in the late game ?
Well OD doesn't hit towers well but he is carry.A carry is a hero who carries his team to victory be it a right clicker or a caster(such game knowledge).
ad hominem at its finest by sleight of my fist in you
with your opinion, why dont we just ignore the comment of normal skill player, like him ofc
tinker like od is a nuker not a carry, jesus people are so thick, a team should typically have only 1 carry which is their safelane farmer. Sure teams can get greedy and play a dusa in mid but thats playing to very specific plans and can unravel quickly with pressure. A 'carry' is a hero who can take down towers and carry the team to the win, tinker can kill the shit out of enemy heroes and can push lanes but he cant win the game on his own simply because he cant hit towers, timber is another in the same bracket as tinker, heavy nuker and lane pusher but not a tower killing carry. Sighhh im so pro at dealing with noobs 1v9 every game in sea makes you that. Even playing with safe lane slark and ursa is a risk because if you dont apply your mid game advantages when they come, late game you're rekt. they fall somewhere in between nukers and carries. But tinker for fucking sure 100% is not a carry by any practical usage of that word.
Fall in line scrubs.
@Sleight of My Fist In You...: It's your definition of carry; not mine, not the community's, not Valve's, and definitely not the professionals'.
@slight Your definition of carry is incorrect.
i like how 2.8k MMR player @sleight calls other people with higher MMR scrubs. LOL
what a poser. and he thinks he knows dota roles omegalul
you are 2k for a reason scrub
@auto muted opponent
If you are right about an issue, your skill bracket doesn't matter. But he's wrong.
and that reason is that i dont play ranked...lmfao my computer and net are too unreliable to play seriously. I got to 2.7k mmr in early 2017 which is like less than 2 years from when i started playing in mid 2015, i think i calibrated like 2k or something and then played a couple and got to where i am atm....my knowledge of the game and skill level far surpass any try hard on here, it's a pretty simple game tbh
come back when you have a better retort than something you got from surfing my profile, sad stuff.